Should I buy one of these shamisens?

Store/Sales
#8

Well…

Shamisen can easily last decades if well maintained, and the skins can last ten years even with use if cared for properly.

As an example, here’s a refurbished 141 year old shamisen being played by an extremely skilled lady out in Nagoya.

I wouldn’t really be worried about ageing, especially if you don’t mind occasional cosmetic troubles. All of my shamisen were purchased used.

That said, it is possible that you might buy this only for it to break in transit or for the skin to pop shortly after arrival. Repairing damage due to transit or replacing the skin could very well bring your costs up and negate much of the deal you’ve found.

If you live in Japan and don’t need to worry about international shipping, I’d say “yes, without a doubt”. My experiences are 95% positive, and that tiny 5% was a great teacher.

If you live elsewhere, it’s harder to advise to wait or jump on it. Maybe some other folks that bought via etsy or ebay can comment on their experiences.

#9

He does ship it with insurance which cost $100 to ship to the US. Depending on the seller’s reply I guess I’ll take it.

Is there a reason why there isn’t anyone making shamisens is the US?

Thanks again for the info!

#10

There’s a pretty simple answer to that - demand!

There’s just not much demand outside of (and even inside of) Japan.

The instrument doesn’t have a whole lot of penetration either. Most people don’t know what a shamisen is, although that is gradually changing.

However, I would point out that some folks are actually making shamisen in the U.S. (just watch Kyle Abbott’s posts on facebook)!

#11

I am an absolute beginner and got my first shamisen 3 or so weeks ago - just like you, I was searching through ebay and etsy. I’ve spent some time playing guitar and other instruments so it didn’t take me long to realize I liked the shamisen and really dug into it.

But like you, I only saw the more affordable (but not at all inferior!) nagauta stylle shamisens. After much listening and watching videos and researching, I quickly came to realize that I wanted a tsugaru style shamisen. So much so that I ordered one and its on the way. I’m not upset about this - I often buy an affordable instrument to test the waters knowing I may well want a different kind of the same instrument. (Just didn’t think it would be just 3 weeks into it LOL.)

I think my point is clear but I will emphasize it this way … do you like this video and is this is the style you want to play?

It’s one of many videos that really caught my attention … and, yes, those are tsugaru shamisens.

Can you play tsugaru style on nagauta? Yes you can. But you do not get the same sound and it is not advisable (the percussives is hard on the skin). And please don’t get me wrong, nagauta has its own style with its own appeal (this may not be nagauta per se but you get my point) …

With that said, tsugaru shamisen is above your budget by some margin. I have researched (a LOT lot) and was hard pressed to find anything decent for less than about $1K. Note that even the “beginner shamisen” here on Bachido is a nagauta.

So if you are like me and want to keep to a reasonable budget for your first shamisen instrument, I say go for it. My point in writing this is so that you go for it fully informed.

And I highly encourage you to do some googling on shamisen history and tsugaru history. My general impression, honestly, is that it is an instrument struggling to make some form of revival. Like of anything Japanese, it is steeped in loads of history and tradition. You’ll find very cool stories, even elaborate hand drawn comics describing this awesome instrument. And also learn to use google translate very well LOL.

#12

Hey Rob, I also play multiple instruments with guitar being my primary. Are you saying that the “striking” sound is only possible on the tsugaru style shamisen?

I’d like to try and implement what I know from the other instruments into the shamisen… I guess I’m looking for a shamisen style that is versatile. I like hearing how it sounds when it’s played in a blues/rock style or like the shamisen player in the Wagakiki band.

Also the seller has yet to response to the questions… I think I asked too much for him to bother lol

#13

Give him some time especially if he is in Japan because of time difference. Also English is likely his (or her) second language so it’s much more of an effort.

Again, I’m a beginner so please take what I say with a grain of salt.

The striking sound can be accomplished with any type of shamisen - its just that the tsugaru was designed for it. Note how the skin goes further down the body. The skin is also traditionally made of the more resilient dog skin than cat skin. There are other differences like the thickness of the neck (not the scale length though).

Since your a guitar guy too, it’s like playing fingerstyle on a dreadnought rather than a parlor with wider string spacing. Can you do it on the dread? Sure, but the parlor was meant for it.

Again though, please don’t think I’m saying the nagauta is in any way inferior. Just that the more popular music you’ll find for shamisen are tsugaru style.

#14

I’ve read that the nagauta has the thinner neck/size profile which I think would be easier to play fast. Wouldn’t the skins be the same since we now have artificial skins?

I can see the base of the Tsugaru’s neck going in more and the skin folding over than the Nagauta.

#15

The nagauta shamisen’s neck is thinner, but I wouldn’t say it’s easier to play fast. The strings and all are closer together which makes it a bit more difficult to precisely play fast Tsugaru phrases.
Each type of shamisen is naturally best suited to play the genre it’s intended for, otherwise it wouldn’t be the way it is :stuck_out_tongue:

Despite them being artificial the thickness of the skins is generally kept true to the style it’s affixed onto, so even a synthetic nagauta skin wouldn’t be stretched as far as a synthetic Tsugaru one.

The swoop of the neck with the hatomune is different from Tsugaru to nagauta, and the difference page on the About page for shamisen types here describes that better than I’d be able to :stuck_out_tongue:

#16

I just deleted my post trying to edit somehow… but basically I youtubed both styles and can hear that the Tsugaru is the one being played fast and has the bachi clicking sound and the Nagauta has a thinner sound I think…

Is the Tsugaru the versatile/diverse one of both?

*Update:

I just watched him playing the Nagauta with the similar playstyle of the Tsugaru… now I’m confused lol

Starting from 2:06 is the kind of style I’m interested in playing.

#17

At least with me, I prefer the width of the Tsugaru neck since it makes things like Kamashi (that sort of crescendo of four notes you hear in many Tsugaru pieces) much easier. Maybe that’s me though.

The sound of a nagauta is “stringier” so there is much less percussion and it’s quieter, yeah. A lot of it is slows but there’s a fair bit of fast pieces. It’s just a different kind of fast, if that makes sense.

Tsugaru shamisen are used in a more diverse variety of genres because of its unique qualities, I’ve seen it used and use it in things ranging from traditional, to jazz, to rock, etc. but I personally prefer it’s sound, but anything that can be played on it notes wise can be played on a nagauta.

#18

Guess I’ll save up for a Tsugaru… I also like that thick/mid sound.

Thank for helping me understand.

#19

You’re welcome!
The important thing is that you get out of this instrument what you want.
Best of luck!

#20

Take a gander at this, Razblade.

It’s a comparison of tone between nice hosozao, chuuzao, and futozao shamisen.

From 3:14 the player repeats the same song (Ringo Bushi, a folk piece from the birthplace of Tsugaru, Aomori Prefecture) on each type.

As others have said, you’ll hear a much stronger percussive play style with the chuuzao, and even more so on the futozao/tsugaru.

A nagauta has a bit of it, but the traditionally higher action of the bridge and smaller resonator tend to undermine it.

I don’t want to dissuade you from saving up for a tsugaru (the cheapest of which I’ve seen retail around $750.) But this video really demonstrates the difference a professional player can pull out.

Shamisen flexibility

You can play anything on anything. The shamisen is fundamentally a folk instrument; you play what you know with what you got.

If we want to split hairs about what comes out as the most flexible, I’d suggest a chuuzao shamisen with an adjustable sawari.

A middle sized neck is big enough for comfortably executing tsugaru techniques and fingering, but won’t be overwhelming heavy and wide like a futozao can be.

An en or azuma sawari gives you more tuning flexibility.

With a typical min’yo body, you’d get a higher pitched, guitar-like sound (closer to the nagauta spectrum) and with a typical jiuta body, you’ll get a slightly deeper, more bass-like sound. (Closer to the tsugaru spectrum).

By messing around with string guages, koma heights, and playing styles, you can get all sorts of neat sounds out of it.

#21

Also, in regards to neck widths.

Like Ian said, it’s actually a bit hard to play precisely on some of the very narrow hosozao shamisen at first. I started on a loaner from my teacher that was about 2.5 centimeters wide; moving up and down was extremely fast, but hitting the right string was rough.

When I moved up to a 2.6 (the upper limit of what’s considered a hosozao) I started having a much better time with things. I’m sure that was partly due to my overall skill level increasing, but that tenth of a centimeter felt gigantic.

I mostly play on a 2.8 cm chuuzao and a 3.0 cm futozao these days. Both feel good, but both took a little while to get accustomed to.

Also, having played on the 3.3cm futozaos before, I have no idea how people use those. They feel mammoth :confused:

#22

So i bought mine from Etsy do the seller is really Nice.

#23

Ok yea so the tsugaru shamisen arrived today (oh man so stoked lol!) and it is a world of difference to the clearly smaller nagauta at least to me. Although it still kinda trips me out that the scale lengths are the same, physically, everything is bigger from the dou, sao, itomakis, neo, doukake … the bridge is smaller lol go figure. That thin string being nylon also makes a huge difference - I feel like I can be much more precise with hammer ons and pull offs. The neck stays level much further closer to the dou as pointed out earlier. And of course the sound - clearly more fuller. That nylon string also has a crisper tone to me than the silk nagauta string. (Or have I been using the wrong thin string for the nagauta?? lol)

Yea, to a beginner wanting to get into shamisen and also liking the more typical modern music, definitely bite the bullet and spend more for a tsugaru. Again, nothing wrong with the nagauta. Oh and get the sawari adjuster thingy. Hey you’re gonna spend that much may as well spring for it cos its very cool to be able to control the amount of twang.

Anyway just my 2 yen as a total shamisen beginner.

#24

Congrats Rob! :smiley:

Yeah, the size makes a huge difference. I like it though - it feels robust! At least it’s not a gidayu bachi, no clue how they deal with those :stuck_out_tongue:

#25

Enjoy it, yo.

Traditionally, you’ll use the azuma or en sawari to make sure you get the longest buzz possible no matter what you’re tuned to. If you tend to only play in a single tuning, it’s also an easy way to tell if you’re properly tuned or not before your ears are trained.

Re: Strings

I’m a little surprised to find out you prefer the nylon to a silk sound. I’m happy for your wallet though :p. Nylon sounds fine enough, but there’s a character to silk that I prefer.

Pity it barely lasts. Like, the moment you go below a 15 gauge string, the longevity just drops into the abyss… it’s nice to splurge on it now and again though…

Anywho.

Whether you were using the wrong thin string or not is difficult to tell if they weren’t marked or in packages.

#26

Guys, thank you. On one hand, I am kicking myself for going the cheapo route off the bat but on the other, I can’t blame myself for playing it safe in case it turned out I hated the instrument.

Christopher, I will go check the strings on the nagauta again. The thin string broke and I was anxious to get playing again so I grabbed what looked to be a thin string replacement. I totally appreciate what you are saying about the sound. And thank you for the tip on the sawari adjuster! I was just adjusting it so it was loud enough to be noticeable but subtle enough so it didn’t sound like my shamisen was broke loll.

But man, this (tsugaru) instrument is LEGIT. I can’t tell you how happy I am to start getting close to the sounds I am hearing my favorite videos of Rokudan and other tsugaru style songs. Now just need to keep practicing like crazy.

#27

Sigh! Time to save up for a tsugaru shamisen.

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