Kokyu players, Unite! [胡弓]

General
#1

I doubt there are a lot of kokyu players here, if any, but hopefully we can get some discussion going about the bowed cousin (or is it more like a little sister) of the shamisen.

I managed to find a kokyu online and it arrived yesterday!

I’ve only had a chance to play on it for a little while, but I can tell that the learning curve is definitely high, even for someone who has played violin for 20 years. However, it took me some time to get used to the erhu, as well, so I know that with practice I might actually be able to play this thing.

I’d like to discuss a couple of things and hopefully bounce some ideas around. First, let’s talk about the types of koma for the kokyu since, as with the shamisen, this is one of the parts of the instrument that affect the sound the most.

Mine came with a very basic bamboo koma.

There seems to be a large variety of koma for the kokyu (as seen here http://harikaedokoro.com/kokyu-koma.html) I’m curious which wood types are considered the best, and if things like width and the size of the hole in the middle affect the sound very much. I’ve come across a few kokyu videos on youtube, and from what I can tell, the best sounding and most balanced to my ears are the koma with a rounded top and a larger hole in the middle.

It seems to me that the middle string is unbalanced from the outer two strings, and I’m wondering if changing out the koma would help balance them out.

Here’s a video of a kokyu with a tortoise shell koma!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jeC7wjADZY

Next, the bow. Let’s talk about this crazy bow! Man, this thing is weird! I feel like there’s way too much horsehair, and it’s super bouncy when changing bowing directions. It’s also very scratchy due to it’s weight and bounciness. I’m not sure if this is something that one learns to control with practice, or if there are different types of bows that work better. For the sake of experimentation, I played it with an erhu bow and got a much better, smoother sound.

And then there’s this.

#2

Are you aiming to play it just as a solo instrument? I recall kokyu was used in the 3 instrument classical chamber ensemble (name escapes memory, others being of course koto and shamisen) before being replaced by shakuhachi a bit under a century ago.

That might affect koma choice. I think kokyu is the instrument with the highest register in the ensemble, and similar to jiuta shamisen which is intended (?) for playing with the koto, a dry snappy, higher pitched sound may be preferred. (Based on my youtube impressions of jiuta…)

Is there a use for kokyu on the current japanese music scene, besides historical/personal interest?

#3

You are correct. The shakuhachi plays many of the parts that the kokyu once played, parts that were in fact originally written for the kokyu specifically. As far as I know from what research I’ve done, the kokyu is primarily only used today for the Kaze no Bon festival in Yatsuo, Toyama, and the most famous song for the instrument is the song used during the festival as the musicians and dancers parade down the streets. Do a youtube search of Kazo no Bon or 風の盆 for videos of it. It’s really beautiful and I believe would be a fantastic cultural experience to see in person. The best overview of the kokyu and its history I’ve found online in English is a transcript of a speech on the instrument to the Pan Pacific Gamba Society by Mari Kano of the Musashino Academia Musicae. It can be found in pdf format here: http://vdgsa.org/pgs/research/kokyu.pdf

As for a solo instrument, I may very well be the only person in Tennessee with a kokyu, and I’m still curious as to how many shamisen players are in my neck of the woods, so an ensemble is out of the question. The kokyu can certainly stand on its own as a solo instrument, and for my purposes, is another tool that can be used on recording projects to add a uniqueness to songs where it may work well in place of a violin.

#4

Kyle, where did you get your kokyu?

#5

I have a kokyu! Although I still have no idea how to play it. Shamisen is effectively my first instrument, so the kokyu bow alone is quite daunting. I haven’t actually heard a song I like too much on it- there is a link on youtube to a song called Hana, and it says it’s played by the kokyu, but I think it’s erhu/digital.

In any case, I suppose things will be different for you then me, since you have violin experience. But I’d be reaaaaaally down to talk about it, so I can figure out how the hell to get a respectable sound out of it.

#6

Rats, it seems there’s easily dozens of highly interesting Asian instruments, but very few are, or can be, played outside their respective countries. Are there any that are common at all, besides sitar, if even that?

I’m wondering if there could be a massive knowledge transfer/promotion programme for all Asian instruments…

#7

Rylan,
I got it from Kameya Shamisen Shop. It was the only shop that took paypal and shipped to the states. It cost a little more than what I was hoping, but they were very helpful, so I was happy to support them.

Anthony,
Glad to see someone else even HAS a kokyu here! Ha! Where did you get it? The bowing is definitely the hardest part, even for a violin player. There are certain things that are just different, especially how the angle of the bow can affect the tone of the string. That’s new to me, and kind of frustrating, but I guess that’s just how the silk strings work.

I ended up buying some bamboo poles for a few bucks, found a really straight one, cut it down and bent it with over a flame, attached some hooks and put the bow hair on it from the cheap bow that my kokyu came with, and it’s actually much better, not as bouncy, and smoother.

Here’s a video I shot the other day of a few passes through Kokiriko Bushi.

1 Like
#8

I got mine from a shop in San Francisco. I’ll get it out and try to play it again when I have time. That video sounds really pretty! I couldn’t get that nice of a sound out of mine… So frustrating.

#9

wow sounds nice . . .

#10

Very nice. I’ve been interested in getting a kokyu for a few years, after I saw this kokyu and koto video on niconico 胡弓＆琴の春の調べ♪ - ニコニコ動画 (requires login)

Hopefully I’ll get a kokyu one day when I can justify the price and time to learn another instrument! :slight_smile:

Best of luck with your studies, Kyle!

#11

Totally forgot to post this here when I originally uploaded it. Nat King Cole’s Japanese version of Autumn Leaves (called Kareha) mashed up with Eva Cassidy’s melodic interpretation. With a Kokyu solo, of course.

Enjoy!

#12

Wow! Nice! But I wonder if the kokyu might be played in a bit more ‘ethnic’ style (or maybe that wouldn’t work with the guitar). Anyway, great job, and let me know if you need a backup shamisen or tsuzumi!

#13

Thanks, John!

I feel like it’s important to play to the genre. I guess I could have played it more traditionally or ‘ethnic’ style, but it wouldn’t have fit the song, in my opinion.

#14

Wow !!!

#15

Very nice Kyle!

I’m not sure if it would be outside the range of the instrument but i imagine Mahoroba by Masashi Sada would also sound fantastic in your guitar and kokyu style.

#16

Kyle, what is the little ring on the bow used for?

#17

It’s there to annoy the crap out of the player.

Honestly, I can’t find any reason for it to be there, so I pushed it to the bottom of the hair where it stays out of the way.

#18

Ebay mega-score time!

I snagged this beautiful kouki wood kokyu on Ebay for a mere $150! I bought it simply because it was a kokyu on ebay in the states and it was super cheapo, but then this morning I had a friend in Japan help me decipher the chicken scratch kanji on the inside of the dou (which my friend found to be a lot of fun) and we discovered this is an awesome find for a couple of reasons.

One side of the dou says either “special order sangen” (特約三絃) or special order for someone named Mitsukoshi (三越)?

It was apparently made by a Ueda Masakichi (Fourth line in the dou 植田 政吉 - We’re not sure about the reading of the given name. Could also be Seikichi.)

Some of the Kanji is still pretty illegible, but the best we could get was that Ueda-san’s shop was in Osaka-shi (大阪市) in the Kita ward (北区 Kita-ku) Tenjinbashisuji block? (天神橋筋町). The third line may be the store name? 鴻池屋 (Koike-ya?).

Searching what we had found, I discovered this site, which details several shamisen shops and makers all the way from 1824 (文政7 - Bunsei era) to 1926 (大15 - Taisho era) http://charlie-zhang.music.coocan.jp/MOONH/GAKKIL.html

Ueda-san appears 7 times on that page, apparently moving around and changing the name of his shop a few times (the first being in 1902 明35, Meiji era,- 植田政吉. the last being in 1926, 大15, Taisho era - 植田政吉商店). So there’s a possibility this instrument was made sometime between 1902 and 1926!

Here’s the cool part. I’m going to be in Japan in June to play music. My hope is to stow this little dude away in my luggage (since it’s small) and get it reskinned while I’m there. At first I thought this shop may be forever gone, but with a little more sleuthing, I discovered that Ueda-san’s sons still run the family business in Osaka (植田琴三絃店)! Not only that, but they’re a short 7 minute drive from my hotel!!

So if time permits, I may be able to walk into a shamisen shop in Osaka and show the Ueda brothers an instrument their father built that has traveled around the world, and get it skinned by the same family that built it!

すごいね。

Just look at that beautiful sao!

#19

Wow, that is amazing, Kyle!! How amazing it would be for them reconnect with such an heirloom. Just don’t give them a heart attack! :wink:

That sao tho…

#20

Wow, Kyle Aaron, I definitely want to hear more about this story as it evolves! I love antiques.

I remember a Mitsukoshi department store in Little Tokyo, Los Angeles in the eighties and nineties.

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