Learning the ukulele

Today pops and I brought out the shamisen and guitar and spent quite a bit of time finding the connections and planning out how to incorporate it with the Toneway Method!

In short, it went very well. I am going to make a tonal pattern for the shamisen and try making a video to show. :slight_smile:

The only main problem I see is this. For those who don’t know, the Toneway Method was developed as a way to teach people music/instruments as simply as a child would (hence, a method that simply connects tones to the positions on the instrument, no extraneous theory). When we teach this method, we connect it strongly with singing.

Singing is a great joy but singing outside of one’s vocal range is what leads many people to not enjoy it. Thus, since the method is already tone-based, we use this to help people know the key they need to sing songs most comfortably.

Adjusting the key for the most comfortable singing experience is very easy on a guitar (or other) because you can just stick a capo on the neck to simply adjust. Adjusting the shamisen for the most ideal key is a bit more challenging. I mean, fundamentally it’s just a matter of simply lowering or raising the pitch of the strings until the song is most comfortable to sing. Getting in the general area is not so difficult, especially when you “feel it out.” But unlike guitar (or such) which has a standard tuning, introducing people to an instrument where there isn’t a specific standard key (but rather standard tuning), I see that being quite confusing.

Then again, maybe it won’t be confusing. What do you think?

Anyway, for general playing and chords, I think we’re getting a good system worked out. When it comes to easily changing keys for playing with others, that will take some consideration.

For best teachers and best players, they seem to be different sets of people in my experience when it comes to shamisen.

Oh yes indeed! Not just for shamisen, but all musicians and almost any art. That really stuck out to me at the first ShamiCamp. The instructors were incredibly amazing to watch and were very gracious. Just watching their first notes, it was clear that they were the best of the best.

However, what was most interesting was it seemed some had simply forgotten what it was like to be a beginner or intermediate player. Of course, absolutely no disrespect to them. It was just naturally evident that presenting material in a simple and clear form was a very separate skill. That’s why future ShamiCamps consisted of only Bachido Instructors, as we would then be able to hone the material over time.

I recall Reigen Fuji did stuff with chords but I think that was rather advanced (did he develop a new tuning to make chords easier?), there may even be a Bachido lesson about it.

Yes, his lesson was very advanced. In the following ShamiCamps, he’s worked to simplify his material to an intermediate level.

Not sure how hard shamisen actually is to learn to play compared to western instruments, it seems ukulele is a world of difference.

Yeah, I would agree with that. When I talk with my parents about how easy shamisen actually is (you can play a chord with one finger and pick out melodies quite easily), the first thing they mention is the bachi. :wink: Even though I’m completely used to using the bachi, again it’s important to realize the point of view from someone who hasn’t entered the paradigm.

While the shamisen is almost as easy as the ukulele (ukulele is a bit easier due to the frets and comfy size), the bachi makes it more intimidating to start. I think it’s mostly those who are already in love with the sound who will readily be willing to put in the time to get comfortable with it. To those who are intrigued with the sound but not fully “in love” with it, I often recommend just using the fingernail or plectrum to start with. Once they get comfortable, switching to a bachi could seem less daunting.

Arrangement of Bachido material should be rethought at some point, too.

Ah, do you mean about just Shamisen of Japan or the Crash Course? About the book, I 100% agree. I wrote it at a time when I thought Rokudan was the “basic” song (which is what Kevin taught me). Years later, I made the first version of the Crash Course and showed it to Pops, thinking he’d have no problem. Five minutes later, he handed me the shamisen and said it was too hard for beginners. That’s when the new ‘awakened’ Kyle started to evolve. :wink:

Sometimes I think about redoing the book, but the nightmare of reformatting, and discovering new typos and such always discouraged me from making a new edition. I hoped having the Crash Course would alleviate the problems with the book, but it’s true that those who get the book might not notice the Crash Course.

Also most of the learning goes from playing songs solo. In some ukulele lessons they start with chords (guess that’s thought of as an advanced subject here) and strumming (there is just one? video about this on Bachido)! What if people just got some friends and started jamming - ie. ensemble playing and you’re more like the 2nd bass than the solo guitar?

Oh yeah, we were talking about that today! I’m planning to work in bar chords so people can play simple three-chord songs (which consist of several thousand folk songs). Other videos could introduce non-barring chords, (where each string is pressed with individual fingers), but that would be intermediate level. (due to the precision required of making clean chords on a fretless instrument. :wink:

Great thoughts!

…when I thought Rokudan was the “basic” song (which is what Kevin taught me).

In Mr. Kmetz’s defense, it probably is the most common starting point for Tsugaru :p.

My tsugaru teacher has been, very slowly, drilling it into my brain over the last few months.

…then again, I only started messing with tsugaru after more than a year of standard min’yo. So from a technical perspective, I’m just learning how kamashi properly and getting the bachitsuke rhythm down properly.

Anywho~ back on topic:

Since I do a lot of (terrible and hilarious) singing, I’m just more and more excited to hear about this, Kyle!

Jacynthe, these theory lessons seemed like my former harmony lesson I had Friday! In my music school, I have to do harmony (a subject regarding intervals and how to armonize them)

Christopher, I also started with Rokudan. It was an great choice of first piece for me as an experienced former guitar player who learned for many years before picking up the shamisen.

It might seem difficult for beginners but in a way, since you find most of the techniques in the piece it should be seen like an ideal, not a piece you will master quickly. But being a beginner, you usually want to learn something quickly so you can feel you achieved something to keep your motivation for harder stuff.

Kyle: Keep up with the thinking process on this project. This is really interesting!

Sakura: Yes. This is what harmony is for. Learning how to build chords so you can make more interesting music.

Rokudan? Right? Maybe I can apologize, but I knew that rokudan is a koto piece composed by Yatsuhashi Kengyo. Did you talk about this rokudan, or is there a shamisen rearrangment? Or is is another piece with the same rokudan title?
Maybe this is one of lots of pieces that are written for koto, but rearranged for shamisen!

It might seem difficult for beginners but in a way, since you find most of the techniques in the piece it should be seen like an ideal, not a piece you will master quickly. But being a beginner, you usually want to learn something quickly so you can feel you achieved something to keep your motivation for harder stuff.

Totally agree~

Rokudan? Right? Maybe I can apologize, but I knew that rokudan is a koto piece composed by Yatsuhashi Kengyo. Did you talk about this rokudan, or is there a shamisen rearrangment? Or is is another piece with the same rokudan title?
Maybe this is one of lots of pieces that are written for koto, but rearranged for shamisen!

Hey Sakura.

The Rokudan we’re talking about is a tsugaru shamisen arrangement. It’s a song that can teach you most of the basic tsugaru and standard shamisen playing techniques. For many people, it is the first tsugaru song they learn.

There’s a jiuta version too, which is very similar to the koto piece - which shouldn’t be too surprising.

Here’s a jiuta version

Here’s a Tsugaru version (with some bachitsuke in the beginning)

I might be mistaken but I think the koto and jiuta might be a different piece. I always see `Rokudan no shirabe’ and I can never find anything I know from the tsugaru version in it…

(We should start another discussion on the forum instead if we want to discuss further about it.)

Anyway, I wonder if someone will ever try to make a ukulele version of it. I think there is only a few guys on this planet who would take the challenge. I could name a few of them but I’ll let them decide. :wink:

Maybe I was referring to another piece… I’m confused! Very confused!