My Shamisen doesn't sound like a shamisen any more

Building/Repair
#1

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if someone might have an idea as to what is ailing my poor nagauta/hosozao shamisen.

I’ve tried really hard to keep it safe and away from humidity and temp changes, but I might have failed.

My shamisen when from sounding like a shamisen, to a guitar, and now kind of like a harp. Or like it’s underwater or something. I live in Sacramento,CA if that is of any help.

I cant stand the sound of it, it’s driving me up the wall. Is it the doh? Anything I could possibly do to fix it? Or does it need to go get repaired in Japan?

#2

Hi Sara!

It may be the skins starting to sag, but I’m wondering what style and size koma you use and where you are putting it on the skin. I’ve found that if I place the koma too far away from the neo, the shamisen can sound kind of dull and lifeless. The rule my teacher taught me (and many teachers teach) is two finger widths away from the neo. You can try moving that even closer to the neo as well. It should help to sharpen things up. If that doesnt help, it might be worth it for you to invest in a higher ivory (zouge) koma, since ivory will help sharpen the tone a bit. Its a lot cheaper than replacing the skins, that’s for sure!

On another note, make sure that your shamisen is not too close to your body. For me, 1/2 way between my torso and my knee is the most comfortable. If you place it too close to your body, you lose a lot of resonance.

One other thing you can do is strike at the top of the bachikawa. If you strike where the wood edge is, you will get a sharp clear sound. Be careful if you are using a plastic bachi though!

I really hope one or more of these tips help!

Do you store your dou in a washi bag?

#3

when you tighten the strings does the koma push the skin down???

#4

Yoinks! :frowning: If you’re doing the same thing for each playing session (using the same koma, holding it the same way), I’d think it’s the skin.

From what Taichi san tells me, the tone of tsugaru-tight dog skin changes after about a year, so methinks that would be the same case for cat skin. Actually, Taichi san also told me that some professional nagauta shamisen players get their cat skin restretched after every concert, to keep the same fresh sound.

(When Grant’s 7 year old skin was intact, it sounded far lower than one that was freshly stretched)

#5

Yoinks! :frowning: If you’re doing the same thing for each playing session (using the same koma, holding it the same way), I’d think it’s the skin.

From what Taichi san tells me, the tone of tsugaru-tight dog skin changes after about a year, so methinks that would be the same case for cat skin. Actually, Taichi san also told me that some professional nagauta shamisen players get their cat skin restretched after every concert, to keep the same fresh sound.

(When Grant’s 7 year old skin was intact, it sounded far lower than one that was freshly stretched)

my skin is supposedly 30-40 years old its cat and sounds amazing to my ears really. :slight_smile:
But i was told when i bought it, it was new… but it sounds nice and crisp so i dont care ^^

#6

some professional nagauta shamisen players get their cat skin restretched after every concert, to keep the same fresh sound

wow that sounds intense . . . :slight_smile:

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#7

2 fingers eh…
I learned 3 on Tsugaru

And keep in mind that changing the position of the koma can change your fingering positions too

#8

Pretty sure that’s because Tsugaru dou is go bun dai and Nagauta is only ni bun dai. The first time I saw a tsugaru shamisen I couldn’t believe how thick the wood of the dou was! Since there is more of a rim, tsugaru players have to place the koma higher so that the koma sits on the skin and not on the wood. Thats why you use the 3 finger widths rather than 2 ^^

#9

Thanks for all the advice! I think Kyle is right and it’s the skin. It echoes too much. I tried changing the place of the koma etc and it didnt help. I just hope the skin doesnt pop off or something… I had a terrible nightmare about that.

#10

“Taichi san also told me that some professional nagauta shamisen players get their cat skin restretched after every concert, to keep the same fresh sound.”

Thats beyond cruel!

#11

ah ouch, would be expensive too

#12

Pretty sure that’s because Tsugaru dou is go bun dai and Nagauta is only ni bun dai. The first time I saw a tsugaru shamisen I couldn’t believe how thick the wood of the dou was! Since there is more of a rim, tsugaru players have to place the koma higher so that the koma sits on the skin and not on the wood. Thats why you use the 3 finger widths rather than 2 ^^

I’m not sure if i’m supposed to… but i use 3 finger width as a standard for my minyou shamisen
sounds the best in my opinion :slight_smile:

#13

One of the secrets of life is to realize that nobody is smarter than you! In a sense almost everybody growing up in modern society is brainwashed to forget this and instead begins believing a lot of what “other people” tell them. However the reality of it is that the only teacher you can truly trust is your own felt experience! Everything else is unconfirmed rumor until you experience it yourself ! Therefore I would say a general idea is to always go with what sounds the best to you…in your opinion.

Yeah!

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#14

Carl Rogers would agree I guess . . . also he managed to put exactly that into words and elaborated on it some more . . .

#15

Yea actually as you may know, I just got my shamisen re-skinned.
I cannot believe the difference.

Actually, while waiting for it to be re-skinned, I was lent a VERY expensive shamisen with the highest quality of skin.

However, that skin has been on there for a while

So when I compared the two, my newly skinned tsugaru sounded almost digital in comparison. it was incredible.

#16

I noticed after to listening to many tsugaru shamisen online. Shamisen with dog skin sounds the best. It has this warmth, and not to much bachi, drumming on plastic sort of. But I will never buy a shamisen with dog skin!!! so what is the best synthetic skin the mimics the sound of the dog skin the most? Anyone knows?

#17

None of the synthetics fully capture a natural skinning.

Hibiki, Hakuho, and Kazane all do a nice job of getting most of the way there. Each has it’s own quirks that you may find more or less distracting.

The best option depends on your own tastes.

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#18

which 1 do you prefer and why?

#19

@Joseph_Monticello
I would like to correct the information you shared, for the benefit of everyone in the community.

A Nagauta Dou size is called Nagauta, and is the reference for all other sizes.
A Ni Bu Dai, is Ni (2) Bu (a Japanese measurement which is approximately 3mm) Dai (big, or bigger than).
The “bigger than” refers to Nagauta, so a Ni Bu Dai is 2 Bu (or 6mm) bigger than a Nagauta body on the longest side, measured from the edge of the Dou.
A Go Rin Dai is Go (5) Rin (there are ten rin in a Bu, so half a bu, or 1.5mm) Dai (larger than a Nagauta).
From there, Ichi Bu Dai, or 1 Bu bigger, then Ichi Bu Go Rin Dai, or 1 Bu and a half bigger, and so on.

#20

I do not much prefer one over the other at present.

The only synthetic I have in my collection is skinned with Hakuho. It sounds mild and nice indoors, but it is missing that special something that natural skins have. It’s also temperature sensitive, so one needs to be careful about heat and storage. There’s a mild texture to the skinning that I’m not keen on, but it’s very subtle.

I have played on and listened to Hibiki shamisen in the past. It is crisp and can be very, very loud. It is nice outdoors, but can be overwhelming for me inside. It’s also extremely durable and doesn’t give a lick about (regular) temperature fluctuations. I don’t like the fabric pattern on the skin. It rubs against my fingers in an uncomfortable fashion.

Some have expressed concern that textured skins can damage bachi but… I’m not so sure. Perhaps if you’re using very soft bekko; but that is likely not a concern for people outside of Japan.

Kazane I have only heard in videos. I like the sound signature a lot but it’s hard to tell how it actually plays - and there’s always a difference in the live vs. recorded sound. Until you hear something in person, you basically cannot know what the real deal is.

The only skinning I’d really advise against is Ripple. It’s much too bright. Too hard. Too jagged sounding. It worked for tsugaru skinnings in the past, but is fully outclassed by Hibiki (and perhaps Kazane. We’ll see)

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