New guy (beginner)

General
#1

Hi all!

I’ve been following the Bachido community and read a good part (if not all) of the forum. It’s now time to introduce myself!

My name is Ben, I’m currently living and working in Japan in Hyogo Pref. and I want to take that opportunity to learn playing shamisen.

I have nearly no experience at all with music instruments (except a quick unsuccessful try with guitar) but I am very interested in shamisen and eager to learn!

So here are my question:

  • How hard is it to learn shamisen? Is it harder or easier than guitar? I understand it’s first of all a matter of practice, motivation, that it’s an ever going process to improve and that it depends on people so I’ll reformulate: about how long does it take to kind of manage the shamisen and play some “clear” tunes?

  • I saw you often recommend Jiuta shamisen for beginners, is the sound different from a tsugaru?

  • Do you know if there are any shamisen teachers in the Osaka-Kobe area and about how much shamisen lessons cost?

  • Are there any Bachido members in the area?

  • Last but not least, I don’t own a shamisen. Price is of course the main issue, especially since I don’t know yet if I will fit this instrument or not. Is it possible to learn with “rental ones” (in a shamisen school for instance) or is it “mandatory” to have my own? In the latter case, any recommendation to purchase a “cheap” one? I don’t mind second hand AT ALL!

Thanks a lot in advance for your welcome and support and sorry for the long read :wink:

See you around the forum and/or in Japan!

#2

Hey Ben!

Welcome. Wow dude I use to live in Kawashi! Are you teaching there or something?

Lets see if I can answer some questions… I’m sure others will add in but for starters…

How hard is shamisen? How long does it take to play some clear tunes?

I’m sure you can guess and other will agree that shamisen is just as hard or easy as any other instrument (except for maybe triangle…lol) They all have their own challenges and what not. If you enjoy it then it wont really be an issue of course. When it comes to how long it will take for you to learn some songs I think you can do it faster than you may think. But you shouldn’t be too concerned about the “cleanness” of the songs as that will be resolved over time as you learn new songs and maybe do some refining exercises. You’ll spend a lot of time in the beginning learning how to hold it and hold the bachi too but I’d say you could learn a easy song or some tunes in a month or two depending on how many chances you have to practice…

Jiuta Shamisen …

Never owned one maybe someone can answer this for me. But the difference between shamisen will not matter too much for you in the begging in my opinion.

Are there teachers in Osaka and Kobe?

Yes, there are many. If you speak Japanese and all that you can find some online. Otherwise you may need to ask a Japanese friend or possibly coworker to help you look around. I had someone at my old school help me find my first teacher which was 12500 yen a month for one lesson a week I think. Or you can search for community centers around your area and they will almost certainly have a taiko group or something and in that there will be someone who knows some shamisen teacher. I learn from Kevin now on skype and its frickin awesome so that’s also an option.

Are there any Bachido members in my area?

Yes ME! Lets jam sometime I have three shamisen and would be more than happy to let you mess around with them. I’m pretty busy usually but if your interested maybe we can set something up.

Shamisen prices.

Yeah the wall of money is annoying especially when your just feeling it out. I’m not sure if certain teachers or groups do rental Shamisen…I know my ex teacher didn’t coughcheap bastardcough Its hard to get that kind of service with an instrument like shamisen because they are so fragile and expensive. If you want I could let you rent one of mine to you for very cheap so you could give a try it would be a nagauta shamisen which are just as fun as jiuta and tsugaru.

Yoroshiku!

1 Like
#3

Hi Ben. I started with a teacher who lended me a shamisen (as he does for each of his students) and the lessons costed ¥ 2000 each (for about 40-45 minutes shamisen included). I think this is an average cost in Japan (just in the case you couln’t deal with Nathan, but I think it would be nice to imply the family)…

In addition, you can check this link :
http://bachido.com/store/beginner-shamisen

#4

Oh good, Patrick posted the Beginner Shamisen link. I was going to do that. This Shamisen is VERY NICE for the price! The only other thing you can get for that price is a junk nagauta (little shamisen - not really meant for the fast hard tsugaru style) that you would have to fix up. Buy it buy it!

When you get (or rent) your shamisen - try Kyle’s free crash course lesson (Kuroishi Yosare Bushi). http://bachido.com/school That’s what got me started. That will cover the basics. Pay particular attention to the bachi holding video! I missed that one and held my bachi wrong for a month, and that set me back, well, a month! lol The next lesson that I took after that was Yasaburo Bushi - that was great for teaching me phrases.

The Bachido Schoolhouse is awesome, too, but I would recommend that to people who have been playing for a couple of months - after you’ve learned how to hold the bachi, what the strings are called, etc. (But, for members who already play - are you guys taking advantage of the Schoolhouse?? FIVE DOLLAR LESSONS!! SUUUUGGGOOOIII!!!) :wink:

When you start to play, if you haven’t got a sensei yet and you have a question - video the problem and HEY, come here!! Seriously you will have an answer within hours (if not MINUTES) of when you post. Everyone is so nice.

Good Luck, Ben! XOXO!

#5

Wow, thank you all for your very warm welcome and fast answers! I appreciate!

Nathan I didn’t expect that at all when I posted this topic! Kawanishi is really a great place, I’m sure you enjoyed your time here too. And all your answers and propositions are PERFECT. I wasn’t hoping for so much in such a short time!

The shamisen course’s prices are close to what I expected, as for the “class rental shamisen” (too good to be true but we never know). I keep your very nice proposition to maybe rent me one in mind :wink: The nagauta seems perfect to begin, well any shamisen will do!

I guess I’ll begin by looking for a teacher in the area and take some classes for a month or two. Best way to get the bases and to see if I get well into it. I’ll then consider the rental or purchase of a shamisen depending on how it goes. I’ll also be very happy to jam and learn with you! That will definitely be a lot of fun! Give me just the time to get used to the instrument and I’ll be there! I also have a very busy schedule but I’m sure we’ll manage to find common availabilities. Looking forward to it!

Patrick Merci beaucoup, I see the prices remain the same. Let’s begin with a teacher before breaking the skin or cords of Nathan’s nagauta :wink:
But I’ll definitely meet up with him soon after I get used to the instrument. I agree it is always the best choice to imply the Bachido family, especially when they are so close and friendly! And it will be more fun!

Lorraine Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind too! Indeed it’s quite “cheap” for a shamisen especially if you confirm it’s such a good quality one!
I was also thinking the best option would be to start with a teacher in order to “master” the basics before really getting into playing. I’ll be looking for one and begin my shamisen journey probably from next month! And yes, I can see the Bachido members are really friendly and eager to help! I’m still stunned by all this support, it’s all getting more and more exciting thanks to you guys!

It seems the hardest part about learning shamisen revolves around the bachi, how to hold and use it. Any advice on that? Are the cords easier to get comfortable with?

Thanks a lot again!

#6

Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onhGq7-mwRQ

And I don’t feel I have perfected my bachi technique after many years of practice. The main keyword is to relax and not tighten the wrist and fingers in vain. Every time you pick the bachi up and you play, throw in a reminder to yourself to relax. That goes for all parts of the body included in playing an instrument, including your face. Don’t go full metal melting face during the whole song!

#7

Hajimemashita, Bensan. Tomo desu.

Please forget guitar to play shamisen. I play Guitar and SanXian (cousin to Shamisen) and have come to see my Sanxian as a percussion instrument with strings, much like a banjo is actually a stringed tamborine.

So, left hand is "fretting’ but not like guitar - more arch to fingers, less pressure. Right hand is beating the rhythm from the wrist - guitar flat picking is a bit of hand and elbow. Also with not a lot of force. Hedlund-san is very correct: relax. Do you drum along to songs you like with your hands/palms? Good practice for the right hand.

Yes, there is a “correct” bachi grip. There are also as many actual bachi grips as players - in these pages you will find video of shamisen buskers using plastic dolls as bachi using the ‘correct plastic doll grip’, I suppose. There are standard bachi now for each style, but there are wide variations in size and shape in old bachi. I make my own and make them to fit my hand. (SanXian is normally not played with a bachi - it is played with long finger picks - but I like to use a bachi.) Tradition is all well and fine. And living in Japan it is woven into daily life and language. A sensei is one way to learn, and learn correctly. But, hey, Jimi Hendrix never had a lesson from anybody - he jammed along to old Chuck Berry records and made a style all his own. Love, devotion, surrender is how another great player put it. Love must come first.

Much good advice above. Many excellent lessons here in Bachido.
Ganbatte and good luck!

#8

There must be a good second hand shamisen scene in Japan. At least:
-friend’s friend who played at school but never since
-vintage shamisen (for the brave?) inherited from the late aunt and collecting dust while current generations know only Hatsune Miku

I’d check local shamisen stores as well. Not sure but you might find plenty in Kyoto - at least all the geisha (geiko) need to get their kouta shamisen somewhere. (Nagauta - jiuta - kouta I think have very little difference from beginner’s point of view, except nagauta tends to be widely available and cheaper. Didn’t jiuta have a large bachi which may be cumbersome?)

Remember that there are differences in the skin and other components of sound quality (plastic - fibersen - natural). If the above doesn’t work for you, just go with the Beginner’s Shamisen from Bachido.

Bachido materials are of course very helpful, with our without a local teacher.

My impression is that shamisen is roughly equal for learning with similar instruments, too. Left hand motorics I take are very similar to guitar, either this kind of instrument is for you or you’re better off with koto/taiko. Bachi I think is the hard part!

I’ve been playing/toying around for a month and can sort of play the song Sakura (spent most effort on it). Second part is the best for me, I get a kick out of it and can almost play it by heart. Third part is the hardest (least practiced), and I haven’t got comfortable with the suberi technique yet. I think in shamisen playing there are several sub-areas where we all perform differently, because our brain (and arms/hands etc) are hardwired differently, and also the effect of practice/teaching.

There’s several things that separate beginners from pros WRT how “clean” your playing is:
-hitting the wrong/additional strings while playing
-all kinds of unwanted resonances while pro’s casually dampen unwanted strings etc
-bachi scrapes the strings when you hit them (happens a lot with my sukui)
-pros perform short slides and various other refinements I forgot to mention to make given notes sound better
-your finger is not exactly on the mark
-your instrument is (gets) out of tune

And of course it takes months, and years, to get over all this… remember to have fun and keep up the motivation while you learn!

PS. Read threads from other beginners, eg.

© 2020 Kyle Abbott