Reinventing The Bachi 1: A call for help!

General
#1

As some of you may have noticed in the forums, i hate my wooden bachi. That being said, i also hate the fact that you either have to murder turtles or sell your firstborn in order to enjoy playing the shamisen.

Its the 21st century. We now have 4-string shamisen, electric shamisen, and yet we’re still stuck with traditional bekkou bachi. While i completely agree that bekkou has so far proven to be the best material and i don’t hope to replace it, i do hope to find a way to modernize the bachi for the first time in hundreds of years. Its time for an affordable, quality bachi that can be obtained easily (no offense, Japan Post).

For starters, im asking YOU for YOUR HELP in developing this bachi of the future, and heres the first bit of crowdsourcing ill be doing:

first, pick up your bachi and hold it as you normally do when playing. I want you to focus on specifically the TOP side, facing toward the crowd, and the BOTTOM side, facing the strings.
JUST POST A PICTURE OF YOU HOLDING THE BACHI! from top and below would be most helpful, i can extrapolate what i need from that.

I’m looking to make a heatmap to determine the most used areas of the bachi as a basis for designing a new one.

(EXAMPLE: here is a heatmap of where people look at a grocery store shelf to help advertisers determine optimal product positioning

http://www.reddotsquare.com/assets/Uploads/products/images/_resampled/SetHeight500-heatmap2.jpg
)

i suggest you upload to www.imgur.com (as easy as click and drag), after which you can post the link in here

Thanks in advance to Bachido and the rest of the shamisen community! I’ll continue to post updates to bachido as they come.

EDIT:
-I’m also going to take this time to ask ANYONE OUT THERE with an AUTHENTIC Bekkou Bachi who TRUSTS ME GREATLY to mail it to me for a short period of testing and experimentation
-Not a scam, i promise. its hard to revolutionize bekkou bachi when i’ve never had contact with one before though!
-The testing will not damage the bachi, i have access to various pieces of equipment that will help me in designing (i work in a physics lab)
-i will mail it back within the week and pay shipping BOTH ways
TAKEN CARE OF. THANKS TO KYLE , PATRON SAINT OF HELPLESS SEA TURTLES

consider this an investment in the future of shamisen worldwide. If youre interested/able to help me out on this just send me a message! Thanks in advance.

#2

Holy bekkou bachis! This is incredible!! Nitta san has been telling me “Kyle, you should design a new kind of bachi for the world. A ‘Bachido bachi’ as it were.” Frankly, I’ve had no idea of where to start and being busy with so many projects, just kept it on the backburner. Plus, having used a bachi for so long, it’s hard for me to imagine a different shape (though it certainly can work)

Well, enough time passes and lo 'n behold, a member from this great community answers the unspoken need that’s been with bachi!

Wholeheartedly, a super-duper good on you, Chris!!

I will be take/post pictures soon! :slight_smile: Very stoked about this!!

#3

A by the way thought, an extra challenge would to design a bachi which gives the same amount of power control but is easier to hold. I’ve spoken to older folks who love the sound of the shamisen and really want to play, but tell me their wrists/arms just can’t handle the bachi without pain ('cause of arthritis and such).

Bonus challenge! :slight_smile:

#4

Nice idea kyle, ill look into that! Ergonomic, affordable, and high quality will be the goals for this futuristic bachi project.

I’m also going to take this time to ask ANYONE OUT THERE with an AUTHENTIC Bekkou Bachi who TRUSTS ME GREATLY to mail it to me for a short period of testing and experimentation
-Not a scam, i promise. its hard to revolutionize bekkou bachi when i’ve never had contact with one before though!
-The testing will not damage the bachi, i have access to various pieces of equipment that will help me in designing (i work in a physics lab)
-i will mail it back within the week and pay shipping BOTH ways

consider it an investment in the future of shamisen worldwide. If youre interested/able to help me out on this just send me a message! Thanks in advance.

#5

This sounds awesome. If I had a bekkou bachi I would send it to you, as I have no shamisen currently.

#6

Well snap, I’ll send you one! :slight_smile: Keep it as long as you need, it’s totally worth investing for the future.

I’d of course like to work with you and support you in any way to make this possible. :slight_smile:

#7

Tell me more about these 4-string shamisen…

#8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XzMgmx1HlLE#!

Nitta san already spoke with Jack about it. He said it’s still being developed.

#9

Yeah ok, I want one. Sorry for the off-topic. :stuck_out_tongue:

#10

I was trying to figure out a way to cast my plastic bachi that I have with epoxy acrylic, or, I had a friend who says she knows someone with a 3D printer. I looked up 3D printing, but it was all a bit beyond me. :stuck_out_tongue:

Okay, this will be weird, but since I’m a new shami player, I don’t know what an expensive bachi feels like - so I wanted to design a pretty, girly bachi. :wink: Pink, or with flowers in the handle … or something.

#11

Chris, actually, with my wooden bachi, your task would be easy, as mine is already stained in the places where I touch it the most. I don’t know if I hold my plastic bachi differently, because that one doesn’t stain.

That being said, I much prefer my plastic bachi. It’s HEAVY, and the smoothness feels cool and good in my hand. The wooden one feels light, and feels like it gets caught in the strings. The plastic one slips iover the strings better, but since it’s so rigid, it still gets caught. (The fact that I’m a terrible player also might have something to do with this as well, lol)

If you want to see hand patterns on bachi, the best place to start is Ebay, there are lots of photos of old bachi on there with stains where people put their fingers.

Edit: and, by the way, WELL DONE YOU, for taking on such a tremendous undertaking!

#12

Kyle, Lorraine, thank you for your support! Eric, you too! that youtube video gives me frission every time i watch it, truly an amazing player.

Unsure yet if ill resort to 3d printing but if i do ill keep the community in the loop. 3d printing is an amazing technology and ive had nothing but good experiences with it, but its also much more expensive and limited in some technical ways.

I think i described the ‘heatmap’ a bit vaguely, so heres an example of what im looking for, based on my own grip:

http://imgur.com/swzMSZU

color / intensity doesnt matter, i just need to see if youre touching it or not with your hand at all

#13

I don’t consider myself holding the bachi 100% correctly yet, so I wonder if this heatmap business shouldn’t be more useful for those who have a proper grip.

#14

Karl-

the purpose is to get ALL of our grips into the picture. if it was designed just for experts it wouldnt be accessible to people like me! As contorted as your grip is, feel free to post it. we all have the same ‘general’ pattern of grip but its those tiny imperfections that i need to notice now

#15

Karl: You should post it anyway. It would be interesting to see. :slight_smile:

As I was typing, I was thinking of the bachi and somehow a shrimp came to mind!

I wonder how it’d be if the bachi was shaped like that, in a way! The painful part of holding the bachi is spreading the fingers/hand across the rather flat bachi. Curved like a shrimp might feel better.

Okay, I’ve colored my fingers based on pressure being applied to the bachi itself. Hopefully it would prove useful somehow

Thumb is red, because the thumb pushes the bachi down to the skin, and so uses the most force.

Index finger is white/red. Though touching the bachi, it applies no actual force on the bachi until the upstroke, when it uses much force.

Middle finger is white, as it could be cut off without affecting playability. :wink:

Ring and pinky are green. They are applying no actual pressure other than the natural force of the two fingers wanting to close together.

#16

Not what i was looking for, but actually this is easier! Ill edit the first post to reflect the following:

JUST POST A PICTURE OF YOU HOLDING THE BACHI! from top and below would be most helpful, i can extrapolate what i need from that.

The pressure applied will play a part but probably not for a while, if you want to do what kyle did go ahead (or put a number on each finger , rating pressure 1-10)

#17

Lorraine and others,

I’m learning Jiuta style and the bachi, of course, is the largest and heaviest. Regardless of how I hold it, it always rubs my pinkie the wrong way.

I am in the process of casting the bachi in epoxy then altering the prototype to allow an indent in the body of my bachi so my little finger “grooves” into the rectangular body.

For Lorraine: for a Jiuta bachi, because of the design, you have to use a two-part mold. For a straight edged bachi (no hump from the body to the blade) a one-part mold should do ok.

The mold is RTV silicone. If the prototype epoxy cast works, I intend to cast in acrylic to get the weight up.

Will post here on progress.

#18

I am in the process of casting the bachi in epoxy then altering the prototype to allow an indent in the body of my bachi so my little finger “grooves” into the rectangular body.

Very very interesting! Kevin and I were at the tournament in Kanagi last month and we actually saw a new style of bachi with literally finger grooves in the handle! I’m pretty sure there was even a fingerprint on each groove. :wink: We both wanted one but already bought a bachi the day before, and couldn’t afford another.

I really liked that bachi I saw at kanagi, but I wondered, what if the player’s hand was smaller/larger than normal, and so the best grip for that person was where the grooves weren’t? (hope that makes sense)

#19

The grip is going to be an issue. I’m looking into materials that conform well to whoevers hand grips it (much like the one ring from LotR)

just received the bekkou bachi and its lovely! Will begin some designing and comparisons to materials on monday

If you haven’t posted a picture of your hand from above/below holding the bachi, please do so! the more input the better

#20

yeah i have issues with grip and my hands as well, my wood bachi is comfiest but still hurts my hands compared to the plastic heavy one.
I was also looking into materials for bachi blades and came accross the usual delrin and tortex etc.

I’d personally think my perfect bachi would be lighter and smaller as well as a little softer on my hand. (i have a smallish hand so it’s not like it wouldn’t compare to a japanese persons standard size)

© 2020 Kyle Abbott