Do expert players use any special techniques to strike the ichi no ito so that you get the snap? It’s obviously harder to make it happen closer to the koma for example.
I realize that as a beginner I don’t use enough force mainly because I’m afraid of striking too hard and breaking the skin.
Hi Karl. I’ve only been getting lessons for 1 1/2 years so all my techniques are around that level and there are people far more qualified than me to give guidance, but here is my two euro cents.
There are different small things I have been shown, bachi holding (imagine an egg between the palm of your hand and the bachi) have you ever played tiddly winks? In slow motion the tip of the bachi can press down on the string and then crack onto the skin like you would if you were flipping a tiddly wink. Also a snapping turtle came to my mind when my teacher was trying to explain it to me. Relaxed loose wrist and towel flicking too!
There could be videos around demonstrating it. I don’t mind trying to video my current technique close up so that it may help you?
Regards,
Pete.
I would greatly appreciate any technique videos there might be there 
I think there are many current and future members here at Bachido who could use such videos. Especially people like me who do not have access to lessons because the instrument is almost non existent here.
I am trying to get comfortable with the bachi, and I notice that tiny changes, especially how you support it on the pinky, procure different results. I know I should keep my expectations low since I haven’t played much and haven’t received any lessons, but I can’t stop feeling that I should be able to come up with something good.
I also guess that each person is different and wants to hold it a little bit different. But please, record your technique and if you can, talk through it or add text boxes.
Thanks
Karl, The feeling in the hand of the bachi initially took me about 7-8 months to feel like I knew what it was going to do, even aside from getting sweaty and sliding about like an eel! But it is still changing as there are so many subtleties going on with it. Slightly different pressures between the thumb and index finger and all the other fingers, plus the thumb in relation to the tip of the bachi can change for slightly different picking/ hitting techniques.
You probably just want to get a good initial holding technique first up.
My teacher was making videos for me as we went along in the early stages. Here’s the first lesson!
Maybe you can slow it down to see what he is doing and just observe his right arm and hand position with the bachi and his left hand/ fingers position in relation to the neck.
First time I’ve uploaded to youtube so if the link doesn’t work let me know!
Regards.
Thanks Pete. I know basic exercises are really important. I had hoped on a more descriptive tutorial on how to hold the bachi but I definately welcome this as well. My bachi hand is too tired right now after an hour of practice but I’ll try out the exercises in the video tomorrow. I definately need to practice my precision so it’s all good. Thanks!
Your welcome Karl.
By the way, there are some video’s of techniques on Kyles earlier ‘Shamisen of Japan’ web site for holding the bachi etc.
Regards,
P.
Hey guys!
Definitely a great topic! Getting a good, consistent snap is one major way to sound like a pro.
Just my two experiences:
Bending the tip
To get a snapping sound, you need to get the bachi bent enough so it snaps against the skin. I used to keep the bachi almost parallel to the skin. So no matter how hard I struck the strings, I was getting almost no snapping sound. Once I tilted the bachi inward about 45 degrees, I suddenly got clear snapping sound with a lot less force. Give it a try.
Also, don’t be afraid to use power. Obviously, you do have to be careful of using power when tilting the bachi towards the skin, as you don’t want to puncture a hole in the skin. However, you do want the tip to snap against the skin. A good rule of thumb is to use a minimum force required to hear a clear, sharp snapping sound. Any more than that is unnecessary. So if you use just enough force to hear a confident snap, your skin will be fine.
Hope that helps! I should make a video about it.
Karl and everyone,
yes as Kyle said “Great topic!”
Here is something that might help.
try this…
Without holding a bachi
step 1.) Take your thumb and place it directly onto the ichi no ito
(in the same formation you would have it if you are holding a bachi.)
step 2.) press firmly into the string downward twords the skin.
(continue until your thumb and the string are touching and/or even pressing into the skin).
step 2 continued.) Now you are feeling a kind of tension like when you are holding back
a slingshot. You are holding this string that wants to snap back but you are not letting it.
Note: This is where the frustration may start because if you simply take your thumb off of the string you will get a faintest whimper of a note… hardly anything close to the “Snap” you are wishing to produce.
The Secret? Allow the pressure being created with your thumb and string against the skin to do the work for you!
step 3.) Now push downward across the skin and away from the ichi no ito (even to the point where your thumb will slide into the ni no ito). Let the string “Snap” back up and Use the ni no ito as an anchor. With this reassurance you know your thumb will not slide down into oblivion so use this “anchor” to give the motion a sense of confidence and power.
step 4.) Obviously try the whole thing again WITH a bachi in your hand.
Once you get the hang of this you will notice how natural this can feel.
beginners tend to thrash, pound and hammer away at the ichi no ito over and over
all the while weeping that their sound doesnt have that powerful snap they hear on CDs/concerts etc. but when you realize it has almost nothing to do with slamming forcefully into the string then your mind can open up to analyze what is really going on. Its similar to what martial arts legend Bruce Lee says about punching… keep the hand/wrist relaxed until the moment of striking. At the moment the fist impacts the target snap into it with all your power.
(something like that anyway)
In the case of Shamisen the best sound seems to be a result of keeping the hand/arm/wrist very relaxed (same amount of effort it takes to wave hello to a freind or fan yourself on a hot day) your bachi-arm feels like it is just falling, like dead weight, downward twords the string. THEN… in the moment of impact strike the string so it goes all the way down to the skin and in that one split fraction of a second put as much energy into it as you can. Then you will feel the string naturally SNAP out of the way of your bachi. Use the burst of energy from this release to force the bachi to naturally “Bouce back” once again reaching upward to repeat the motion.
.
Snapping with ichi no ito-PRACTICE ADVICE…(Preparing MENTALLY)
Shamisen is unique in its practice because unlike many western instruments the point of Shamisen is in its “TONE”. Pianists and guitarists spend many hours each day running through scales, excersizes, etudes ETC… whereas Shamisen players spend that same amount of time playing ONE NOTE over and over until it sounds right.
Because of this, mastering a technique like the “Snap” can cause many to be confused, discouraged and even potentially fall into a state of depression.
Not to fear though. All it takes is a little mental preparation and imagination to keep your spirits focused.
Here are some random suggestions.
1.) before practicing allow yourself to enter a kind of mental daydream state.
See yourself as some kind of hero or monk or whatever. Imagine that a dark force has disassembled the sacred temple that holds the universe together.
You have been given the task of rebuilding this temple and the method is by the use of soundwaves. You hold your Shamisen and bachi as sacred tools. Each time you strike the string correctly a block of the temple is lifted into place.
Imagine there are a million blocks scattered. Now with this desperate need to keep striking the string over and over you will feel enourmous importance with each gesture. and suddenly repeating an open string for one or two hours
will no longer seem boring or pointless but instead (in your mind) will become
the most significant thing you have ever done in your life.
2.) Compare this to a sport or martial art or to farming etc.
A person practicing for a marathon will run everyday.
A martial artist will practice his/her punches and strikes over and over
A farmer plants seeds into the earth all day. The same motion again and again.
All these things may seem tedious when you see someone doing them over and over but when you see the result of their effort over time it always makes more sense.
In the same way don`t think too much about immediate results with Shamisen.
Understand that by practicing something repeatedly you are following in the footsteps of all those who have accomplished great things in life.
So dont be discouraged if you dont get the snap right away.
Even after you have tried 1000 times and it still doesn`t sound right…
try it One more time!
Always keep telling yourself… One more time…one more time… etc. etc.etc.
Thanks for great and extensive answers! I just got home and it’s friday so the shamisen practice will have to wait for tomorrow when I’m awake. Some people might disregard mental preparation but visualizing that you can do something is proven to have a positive effect on your effort and focus so I’ll definately try this out Kevin.
But before I try this out tomorrow, I’ll just ask one question to see if I’ve understood it correctly. When I have tried to get a better snapping sound by myself I’ve tried applying more and more force to the hand/arm while it’s on its way to the string. From your explanation it seems it doesn’t matter how fast your hand/arm is moving when closing in on the string, its all about applying all the force once the bachi makes contact with the string and allow it to slide off instead. Is this correct?
Thanks for the question Karl.
the best way to find out about this is to find the answer on your own.
One way to test this out is like this…
Press the thumb/bachi into the string (I mean no distance from the string as in"Already touching") then create a powerful snap off the string. Try to get a really good strong snap!
Next try lifting your arm up and bringing it down with force onto the string.
Now listen to the difference.
Is there any difference?
If done correctly you will probably notice there is hardly any difference in the sound. If anything you may start to feel that the close-range snap is more powerful than the swinging of the arm up and down.
If this is the case, no problem. It just means you need a little more practice and most likely indicates that you have too much tension in your arm in an effort to apply force.
In my experience I have come to understand that the reason for the dramatic arm bachi-gestures while striking the string are more or less a function of keeping the rhythm of the song (to give a bounce to the beat) and have very little to do with making the tone more powerful. Many great player exxaggerate their arm movements as a way to visually dramatize their performance (Yoshida brothers do this almost to an embarrasing degree). But keep in mind it is an optical illusion. The power is not from the arm it is from the snap of the string popping back up after being held down. and the level of power depends simply on how much tension you can create within that fraction of a second of contact.
So I’ve just finished a shamisen session, trying out what has been written here. Here are my experiences:
As I’ve learned to play I have managed to get the snapping sound more easily with the other strings by just applying more force in the downstroke. Trying the same thing with the ichi no ito does give a percussive sound, but it is not the snap that you want.
After trying the “press & slide off technique” I noticed that the snap sounds that is generated is what you want. I noticed that I had to compensate a bit, start pressing a bit earlier than I would have just hit the string with a downstroke because of the time it takes for the bachi to slide off the string. With practice I’m sure that this delay will be decreased by more precision and focused force.
I’m happy that I was able to produce the correct sound, now it’s just a matter of being able to pull it off repeatedly during a song!
Thanks for the report Karl. Keep at it! It`s definately worth the effort once you start being able to flow through the music. Hopefully you will post a video sometime (or maybe you already have and I just missed it??) anyway would love to check out your progress!
I’ve uploaded a video of me making a snap on the ichi no ito.
We discussed that I should press the string with the bachi and let it slide off and try to get that sound. Now I might be a bit too afraid to strike the skin hard enough but it feels like I’m using a decent amount of force right now.
I can tell a difference between the two sounds, although in the video it showed less. Also I tried to pick a camera angle that would give a good look of the bachi striking but I realize I didn’t get as good sound as the microphone was not in front of the skin. So the question is, should I pursuit a better sound at this point of my skill, or should I simply move on with how it is currently and return to training the snap sound when I’ve got more experience?
My hand still looks pretty stiff, but it didn’t feel like it when I played. And damn it, I must have the worst photography skills. Now my computer screen was on and took away the light dynamics.
Karl,
GREAT! You are getting the sound!
I am sure you have heard the expression Chi-To-Shan?
You seem to have a natural feel for the Chi and To
my only desire is to hear more “Shan” when you do your snap sound.
Just in case you may want to review exactly what I mean in more detail…
“Chi” meaning the slight scraping downward across the skin into the string
(You are doing this)
“To” meaning the impact of the bachi striking the string.
“Shan” is that magical burst when you release the note and let it breathe so to speak.
You should get a feel that the whole instrument is resonating.
Its hard to explain this even with a demonstration. Its more a feeling you get.
Try to imagine a ball bouncing in slow motion. You will see it make an impact on the ground…then the tension pushes it upwards again naturally (fluid motion).
If I were to compare that image to your video post it might seem like a ball that flows naturally to the ground but then is a bit jagged coming back up. Almost like an unnatural hesitation. Of course its very strange because if you "Try" to do this you will most likely just get frustrated. Its like telling someone to “walk naturally”. The more they try to more unnatural it will seem (etc.)
Sorry that might be confusing but I hope it helps in some way.
If I could cut through all the detailed words what it comes down to is the very simple idea of putting a little more “Bounce” into it.
Hope that makes sense…
I read about it in Kyle’s book. That you should allow the bachi to bounce back to let the skin resonate without you dampening it with the bachi. Good reminder, as I’ve been focusing solely on getting the snap sound! I can also see that my bachi remains near the skin in the video. I do realize that if I let my hand bounce back I will use less force when bringing it back into the striking position and will therefore get tired more slowly as well
I’ll have it in mind when I practice, thanks!
Just had another session and I must say, sometimes you just have to keep stuff in mind and everything will reveal itself. I just love how I keep getting the right feedback here on Bachido Especially when there are no teachers where I live that I know of. I can’t even find players around here!
When I started thinking of having a bounce and imagining that the striking of the string was not completed until my hand was back in its original position, it felt really natural and started to sound better.
Next up is performing a good sounding sukui on the ichi no ito, now there’s a challenge
And one more thing, a tip for fellow beginners. If you have an adjustable sawari and you are starting to get some good ichi no ito strikes going you might feel that the string sounds bad as the volume increases. This can mean that your sawari is too close to the string. As the volume increases, the string vibrates wider and therefore will touch the sawari more easily.
Again, bunch of thanks!