This section is for Bachi

Building/Repair
#1

Good day ladies and gentlemen of Bachido.

I would like to get a post going here to talk about Bachi.
“Why?” you might ask. Well I found myself wondering about Bachi Sizes.

I personally use a rather large bachi. It is bekkou and anything smaller or lighter feels a bit weird for me.

But then I got to wondering, what are the sizes? and how are they classified?
And while I could just as easily wonder down the street to my local Shamisen store and spark up a conversation, I thought it might be more beneficial for everyone if I sparked up the topic on here.

And so this is where we start.

oh… and don’t be afraid to get a little side-tracked (^_-)… for some reason, I am developing an obsession with bachi, and any info we get on here about them could be quite interesting (^-^).

Cheers!

#2

I don’t have much info to add, but I can post a matter that might be interesting for new players. What if you are a beginner and you start playing with a bachi that does not really fit you? I mean when I first started it was nearly impossible play with the bachi, but now I am getting better all the time. Still, it is a possibility that the bachi I have isn’t optimal for me. Obviously it is better to start out with gear that fits you, and it can be affecting your progress rate if you have to wait until you are not progressing anymore before you try out different bachi sizes. Even then you might have to learn playing with the new size for a while to realize if it’s better or worse.

A question that is hard to answer, but that is still valid and important imo.

#3

Nice topic Norm.
I too am in love with the Bachi.
I think they are classified by the genre they are used in.
For example, I know the tsunayama (I think thats the name) used for Jiuta is HUGE and the Jiuta players seem to place their thumb alot further away from the tip of the bachi that the tsugaru players, I have an old (I hope) thin bachi made of some kind of bone and its make a very light minyou sound. The first one I had was a wooden one marked with the number 20 in kanji, I’m guessing this was the size. It was for nagauta and was very long and narrow, my plastic tsugaru bachi was shorter but wider than that one. Lastly, my fake bekkou bachi is even smaller than the plastic one but alot heavier.
I like the shorter, heavier one’s for tsugaru but I haven’t used many types. I would to love try a huge jiuta one! Anyone on here used one before???

#4

Hey guys,
Good topic. I know the general consensus is that a heavier bachi is “better”. Probably because if you keep your wrist loose like your supposed to, our friend gravity will aid you in producing a louder sound and easier back and forth motion (sukui?). I have a few now and I actually prefer my shorter, lighter bachi, which is a bekkou bachi I sanded down to a point again that I bought used. I even filed a little bit off my faux-bekkou bachi handle where my pinky rests for a more comfortable hold. So its slightly lighter. It’s just how I feel now, it might change in the future. I may be wrong, but I don’t think this is the most crucial aspect of the tone you achieve. That’s probably going to be determined mostly by the strength/accuracy that you play with. I mean of course a flexible bekkou bachi is going to destroy a stiff plastic one any day. (That’s pretty much been established). I’m just referring to the size/height/weight. It kinda sucks, because with the shamisen I find it definitely DOES matter about the quality of plectrum you’re playing with. And that quality ain’t cheap! Whereas with a guitar you can pretty much buy any size piece of plastic for 35 cents. As for Karl’s question, I think invariably the beginning shamisen player will almost always have a cheaper bachi. And I almost think of it as a right of passage to get a better one. Kind of like using a stick before you get a sword ( I still want a new bekkou bachi!). But I’m using what I’ve got. And hopefully when I get a new shiny bekkou bachi I’ll whip that thing out, start playing and be like “Damn… sweet!”

#5

haha :smiley: yeah i’ve got a stiff pretty heavy plastic bachi and i want a bekkou :smiley:

#6

Guys,i’m very tired now and dont want to start a new post so…

How can you discover if your bachi ir real bekkou or faux bekkou?

Thanks

I might fall asleep now

#7

I’ve always been interested in how bachi developed. I know they were brought over to Japan from China, I think originally to be used for the biwa, but why did the Japanese keep using them when they went out of favor in China? And where’d the Chinese get them from, anyway? How did they get their characteristic shape, and why is it advantageous to the play style compared to smaller, straighter plectrums and picks?

#8

I mean, honestly, who would say “I think I will try to hit strings with this”?

Gotta love some of the non-tonal noises, though. (Ex. The line that starts at 3:08) I guess maybe stuff like that would be harder with a thinner pick, but you don’t really see a lot of that outside of biwa. Or do you? I could be totally wrong. I’m no expert.

#9

I was visiting this shamisen maker called Tada san, he looked at my bachi and was like…thats too long for you. Obviously this is my first and only bachi and i was never measured for it, but apparently according to one school of thought, the bachi tail should only stick out of the bottom of your hand by about 2cm or a bit less. Tada sensei, showed me how he sawed his off to make it fit him better.

I’m kind of reluctant to do that to mine but still, just a thought for anyone out there.

An additional thing is about the Point of the bachi. when i got mine, it was super pointy and sharp, and i just figured that’s the way its supposed to be. Obviously it slightly chipped slightly, and when Tada sensei saw that he was like “that’ll never do” and took it off me and repaired it by sanding it down. I didn’t really understand it completely but I think that he was trying to tell me that a rounded rather then completely sharp tip is preferred for playing. This was later confirmed when I was talking to Kevin. He was basically saying something along the lines of, its up to each player to round their own tip off to their own preference. I had no idea, but sure enough, when it was fixed and a bit rounded off (not a lot, just not that super sharp tip you get it as in the begging) it was just AMAZINg to play with…like wow! seriously. A workman should never blame his tools, but it really felt like a “level” up.

I’m pretty sure my bachi is realy bekko, so a note for those who wish to try it. Tada sensei started off with 1000…grade? …cant rememebr the word for how fine the grind is, but 1000 anywhoo, and then moved up to 1500ish, and finally 2000. After the 2000 he then used wet and dry, and then after that he used a metal polish used on cars, with mini mini small abrasives in it. I took a pic but i dont have it at the moment.

so yeah…some stuff i picked up during my aomori travels, if anyone’s interested.

#10

I am in total agreement here with the fact that getting a better bachi is a shamisen “right of passage”.
It’s how I felt in Hirosaki when I got my first bachi upgrade.

I started playing with a used bachi from Kevin. It was extremely stiff and light. It really helped me develop and learn how to make a good tone with a more difficult-to-play-with bachi.
During the next few years of going back and forth to Japan with Kevin, I spent alot of time studying individual techniques, styles, instruments, and of course bachis and the various grips and methods the different masters use to play there.
This led to a sort of Bruce Lee approach to playing Shamisen, where I tossed the techniques and methods I saw as exaggerated and pointless out the window, and looked at the distilled wisdom and tried to develop from there.

Eventually after I was ready for my second bachi upgrade, I sought out the player with the best tone: Masahiro Nitta.
I spent a week in Misawa with him, Kevin and Kyle and asked him many questions about bachi. I wanted to emulate the exact style Masahiro played with. Which was as heavy as possible and as flexible as possible.
(Masahiro’s father, Hiroshi, has actually cut a hole in his bachi’s handle and glued a led weight into it).

It is all dependent on your opinion and what school of thought you are going with. I personally will follow the “Nitta bachi” way of playing as closely as I can until I find something better.

The larger bachi tend to be for the smaller shamisen, ironically. And it is completely true that each player must feel out each bachi until one feels right in their hand.
If you’re lucky, you’ll buy your shamisen in Japan, and be able to get a nice beginner bachi that actually fits your hand size first thing (Kevin and I helped Anne get one that fit her smaller hands), but for the most of us, we have to use what we get. Or you can be even more awesome and modify/create your own bachi!

#11

This is a quite interesting topic. I’d love to discuss and compare when we meet Grant!

Sometimes I feel like I would want the bachi to be a bit bigger and heavier so that you can use the weight as a tool for being more relaxed on the down strikes.

#12

Guess I’ll try and revive this topic. Which is better? Is sanding the chipped edge to make it rounded or to sand more of the edge to make it pointed again?

Won one from yahoo auction because I was so bored. Was a steal even though it’s cracked, came with a nice pouch too.

[Album] Imgur

#13

I played Kyle’s rounded bachi at the camp in Berlin and I must say it felt better than playing with a point.

#14

I have an ivory bachi with a small chip on one side and a perfect point on the other.

Personally, I prefer the unchipped side’s sound, but… it’s really splitting hairs. I only use it on slow songs, so I’m not sure how greatly it impacts techniques.

#15

Hi Jasman! I would definitely try to round the chipped edge. Playing with a sharp has it’s benefits for a crisper (and literally sharper) tone, and a rounded edge has a different but-equally-pleasing quality to it. By rounding one side, you’ll have best of both qualities! :slight_smile:

Personally, I’ve tried sanding the edge farther to turn a chipped edge into a point again, but the results weren’t good. Basically, by shortening the blade (sanding the long edge down to remove the chip), the width of the blade also shortened, which was more awkward for my hand.

That’s just my personal experience. If you find the width of the blade uncomfortably wide already, shortening that may prove beneficial. But if the width already feels comfortable, I’d go for rounding.

#16

Hi Kyle! I’d definitely round the tip for this bachi. Although I do wonder what Baisho sensei will say about it since he is pretty strict

#17

Oh! Is that Baisho Matsumoto you are referring to, by chance?

#18

Yes it’s him! He comes here once a year. But don’t tell him I said that! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

#19

Wow, that guy gets around! I joined him in a fundraising concert (for a local Japanese Culture Fair here in Santa Cruz) when he came here a few months ago.

http://imgur.com/OvdEvC5.jpg

Haha! Don’t worry, your secret is safe with me, and the rest of the world viewing this thread. :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyway, I would think he would be okay with it. Many professional shamisen players I know (including Masahiro Nitta, regarded as one of the best in the world) round their chipped bachi rather than sand the whole edge down.

Generally, if a bachi’s edge is to be restored to a point, rather than sand the entire edge down, the bachi maker will cleanly grind off the chipped edge completely off, and then attach a separate piece, jointed to the main blade. (Even made out of bekko) Then it’s good as new, and the height remains the same. :slight_smile:

#20

Thanks Kyle, I feel assured :stuck_out_tongue:

He founded the “Shamisen No Kai”

He comes and performs in our local Izakaya and hospice, also to check up on us if we’ve been practicing or not :stuck_out_tongue:

© 2020 Kyle Abbott