Having closer San-no-ito = modified koma?

Building/Repair
#1

I read in Kyle’s book that some pros string their san-no-ito (3rd string) closer to the middle. Using a normal koma, this means that this string will be longer measured from the kamigoma to the koma. This means you have to make adjustments to get a proper note played. If you want to play a chord by just holding your index finger across all three strings this will be pretty impossible if you haven’t got your fingers stuck in a drawer as a kid.

The way to solve this problem is to have a koma that has the notch for the san-no-ito closer to the middle. Do they use such a thing?

#2

Hmm… I’ve never had any problems with chords (not that I use them all that much) The san no ito may be a millimeter or two longer this way, but I don’t think that’s enough to affect pitch. Anywho, I’ve never heard of a koma made like that.

#3

In any case, the distance between the strings will vary quite much further up the sao. I think I will continue with stringing it normally.

#4

For the record, the san no ito will be barely a hair’s width longer if you move it sideways at the nut. Not measurable, really. You could calculate the exact difference with the Pythagorean Theorom: (new-length/hypotenuse) = square root of [(normal-length-of-string)^2 + (string-shift)^2 = (new-length)^2]

I don’t know the values offhand, but I’m guessing it’d be something like:
sqrt(90cm^2 + 1cm^2) = 90.005555cm, or one-twentieth of a millimeter longer.

So, no effect on intonation. :slight_smile:

#5

When you put it like that it’s true that it shouldn’t matter much. I noticed that when I played the octave on all three strings the san no ito differed with 1 cm. Of course it could have been out of tune, but I’m considering if my san no ito has been weakened and stretched. Will check it out next time I get home early enough from work not to disturb my neighbours :slight_smile:

But still, the space between the two strings will change along the sao as the koma brings them apart. Isn’t this annoying when playing?

#6

I read in Kyle’s book that some pros string their san-no-ito (3rd string) closer to the middle.

Kyle - don’t have your book to hand right now, so can’t check the context, but I assume that your talking about pros stringing san-no-ito “closer to the middle” refers to the alternate stringing style of putting string 3 on ni-no-ito’s peg and string 2 on san-no-ito’s peg. Is that correct? In that case, perhaps Karl doesn’t realize that strings 2 and 3 have actually switched places in order to bring san-no-ito to the middle (which would maintain the usual distances between strings), rather than string 3 having somehow been physically moved closer to the middle from its position on the san-no-ito tuning peg (which would mis-align the strings on the sao at some point…)

Karl/Kyle, did I “translate” correctly…?? :slight_smile:

#7

I’m not sure :slight_smile:

If we use a normal koma, all three strings will be separated with the same distance right there. If the strings are closer together at the kamigoma, this means we get a triangle like Luke described. There is no other possibility. I don’t think it matters what pegs you have them stringed at as long as you get the string over the right spot on the kamigoma.

This means they start closer to each other but as you approach the koma they become more separated.

From the pics I’ve seen it just looks like the san no ito is closer to the middle of th e sao widthwise. The ni no ito is a little bit closer to the ichi no ito but I’m not sure if that is important or if it just happens to be like that in the picture.

In any case, it doesn’t seem like there is any reordering of strings going on.

#8

Carl’s right. The string-to-peg order doesn’t matter, nor affects sound or whatever.

It also comes to matter of taste. In the picture, the ni no ito may be closer to the ichi no ito, but that can be changed if you want more space. Though the picture was taken that way, I like more space between the ichi no ito and the ni no ito.

Bottom line, it’s not an exact science. :wink:

#9

I just finished another playing session (playing the shamisen absolutely rocks btw).

I did not experience the detuned san no ito this time, so maybe I was just being temporarily tone deaf and didn’t realize it was out of tune. Currently I don’t play higher notes than the 10th “fret” so I’m not sure if the angle will affect me later when I play.

But a modified koma would mean parallel strings which looks better :wink: However it should be modified a bit to transfer the vibrations to the skin as optimal as possible.

#10

お疲れ様でした！！:slight_smile:

The whole string distance (widthwise) is definitely a subtlety. I think that until one is comfortable enough with playing, the subtleties don’t matter because just doing basic things is intensive enough. After the player gets to a certain level of ease, you will naturally start to try new positions and string placement to fit your tastes. It’s perfectly fine to try anything out, just know that it’s nothing necessary to being a proficient player. As long as you are playing and enjoying it, it’s all good! :slight_smile:

I definitely encourage you to try making a modded koma! Who knows, you may make something revolutionary! :smiley:

Oh snap. I realized that in my last post, I spelled your name with a ‘C’! My bad!

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