i agree, with my hands getting worse as well i was considering leaving using out the bachi all together and plucking with my nails instead. a totally different sound, so anything that would help my hand would be cool
Jamie, I don’t have a problem with the bachi design as it, either the Tsugaru bachi or the more “monstrous” {g} jiuta one (which is bigger than an ice-scraper and much heavier than a Tsugaru bachi, too). It did take a few weeks to get used to the baby finger stretch at the beginning, for sure, but to me, that’s kind of like needing to wait for your calluses to develop when you start playing taiko or koto, or doing various martial arts, etc. Certain things often just “come with the territory”.
I must say, it did help, when I found out that jiuta bachi came in other sizes than the “standard” one. (Note to Gary - in case it makes a difference, the jiuta bachi I was holding is a size/number 72, not the standard 75). For those like Amanda who are having trouble with the bachi they have, might be worth trying a smaller one to see if that helps. The changes in grip/comfort made by a millimetre or two difference in size here or there are quite interesting…
As I read Kyle’s most recent post above, with his comment about arthritis, I wondered how a bachi might feel/work if it perhaps didn’t have hard/squared-off edges. (I do actually have a jiuta bachi where the edges have been radiused somewhat, and I confess I’m not keen on it, but then that bachi is larger than the one I usually use, so that may be the reason.) For instance, what if the bachi had a round, or perhaps eliptical/oval(?) handle instead of what it has now? And/or what if the handle was simply made a bit thinner/narrower than current standards? I don’t have the answers to that, but fwiw, those were today’s thoughts as I re-read the last parts of this thread.
Oh, another note to Jamie -
Whew, it was difficult to contort my wrist in order to take those shots. sigh Such is living alone…
Ain’t that the truth. Yes, it did take some doing to figure out how to take shots of one’s own hand without being a Cirque du Soleil member! 
(I tried it using my iPad first, which had me trying to hit the shutter with my nose - and that would certainly have been Bachido blog-worthy, had anyone been around to witness my antics, but fortunately for me, Kyle was busy elsewhere, several thousand miles away…!!! (^o^) )
Linda,
Hmm. I thought the Jiuta bachi was one size only Interesting to find out it is not. Based on your photos, I believe mine is the same size as yours although it may be larger in length a bit. Hard to tell from the pics.
Amanda, some of the Jiuta pieces performed by geishas were done with their fingers and no bachi. I understand the Okinawan shamisen is often played with individual picks that slip over the fingers. Something to think about.
For me, my wrist gets tired quickly at the angle I am required to play the instrument. I hope that gets easier or my wrist gets stronger as time goes on. But the “pinkie pinch” is what bothers me the most. If I can get rid of that I could practice longer for sure.
G’day folks,
For those who are suffering from wrist pain, I think it’s really important to keep your wrist relaxed and avoid gripping too tight (the grip of death). When I first started I suffered really badly, so much so that I had to get a quartazone (someone please correct my spelling) injection. Once I learned to relax I found I could play for hours with no drama.
So remember… CHILLAX!!!
Linda, I was thinking the same thing about the sharp corners on the squared off handle. That’s what bothers me more than anything, is the corners digging into my knuckle. If it were rounded off it would be a lot more comfortable ( but not too round, otherwise the bachi would flip, and not in a fun taiko way).
…and that would certainly have been Bachido blog-worthy,
Yet another reason to move to California! 
I wondered how a bachi might feel/work if it perhaps didn’t have hard/squared-off edges.
My fingers are spread so far that I don’t really notice the hard edges personally, but rounding them certainly couldn’t hurt! The main problem my mom had was bending the wrist that far.
I think making a bachi that didn’t need a 90 degree-ish wrist bend can certainly be done, but thinking of the appropriate shape… it’s hard to imagine anything other than the current bachi shape. but I think can be done. Especially bouncing ideas back and forth over brewskies.
Open mind! (Cleese!)
Yet another reason to move to California!
Kyle: In yer dreams, young man!
Linda,
Hmm. I thought the Jiuta bachi was one size only Interesting to find out it is not. Based on your photos, I believe mine is the same size as yours although it may be larger in length a bit. Hard to tell from the pics.
Gary, if you think yours seems a bit longer, then you probably have the 75, which as I mentioned seems to have become the standard. The 72 is not just a bit shorter, all its proportions are slightly altered to fit its being shortened, as well, which probably accounts for why it feels like a better fit - to my hand, anyway, and I do not have small hands. (BTW, there may be other sizes I don’t know about, and I remember Gerry mentioned a site years ago where you can get bachi totally custom made to your personal hand’s specs.)
Anyway, in case you want to alter your future castings, etc., I took a bunch of pics from various angles today of two of my jiuta bachi, a 72 and a 75. (FYI, the taller 75 in the pics is the one I mentioned before that has slightly radiused edges, altho’ they’re radiused so minimally that it may not show.) While it may look in some of the shots as if it might be only perspective that’s accounting for some of the differences (height, shaft width, etc.), I assure you that the two bachi were placed as close to each other as they could be without touching and/or compromising the shot - I made sure that the photos were as accurate size-wise as what I was looking at in person.
So here you go:
My Jiuta bachi is 9 inches long, 5 inches wide at the blade, and weighs about 7.5 oz. Compare that with yours and tell me what size you think it is.
What’s interesting in these particular Jiuta bachis (and mine) is the curvature inward from both sides to create the blade instead of a flat surface area to begin with. It was this curvature that required a two-part cast instead of the much easier one-part cast. Most other bachis I’ve seen that are other than jiutas have this single flatness. I wonder why that is?
just wanted to pop in and correct something; i dont plan on ‘redesigning’ the traditional style of the bachi. i plan on keeping it and its grip as similarly as possible. i only plan to find 1) a cheaper alternative to tortoishell that is still good and 2) and more comfortable material for the handle, including adjustable weights and pads.
dont worry, the whale–tail design will survive!
I have finished the first phase of my bachi casting. Please see my new thread on this subject, or go directly to
for the process.
waytago, Gary. On my way.
I had hubby do this for me. I figured my bachi is a cheap one, so if I ruin it, no biggie, I’ve still got my nagauta to practice with until I order a good one. The grip feels MUCH better!
It also took that slick finish off so that it’s not so slippery, and my pinky knuckle fits nicely in that groove. I still might have to wrap it with some tape because the notch was a little bigger than I anticipated, but that’s an easy fix.
Now I can get all the way up in the “assthigh” as Kyle puts it, and my pinky doesn’t slip forward on the handle. I’m going to have to play more to see how it goes, but until someone comes up with a really cool solution, this just might work!
(on this next photo, I didn’t have my knuckle IN the groove, which seems to
make me grip it better.)
*A few hours later, after playing: * Wow! What a difference! I’m actually getting that nice percussive sound on the dou now, and not shredding my pinky knuckle!
Great documentation Gary! And kudos for taking the project on too!
The shots in your update look great. How was the playability after extra sanding?
I wonder, do you think it’s possible to mold keratin?
Lorraine: Great!! Nice that you had a cheap bachi to try it out on! For my birthday, Kevin gave me a fixer-upper bekkou bachi with a plastic handle. I was planning to try notching it, but have been rightfully nervous about botching it. 
I would really like to give it a try. As one who is used to and has developed good bachi technique with the current shape, if I find it to be equally as good (I.e, just as able to get strong technique) as the normal kind, I would consider it to be a necessary change.
Kyle- i must ask… what is ‘assthigh’?
As for molding keratin, only after its processed into the plastic-like material they mention on that page. not sure how they go about that though. the low density and high damping may not make it the best for the flexible bachi tip though.
lol - sorry Kyle! Chris, I saw Kyle use that term (assthigh) on another thread that addressed bachi position and it stuck in my mind! I can’t find the thread now - did I dream it?? I know I didn’t dream it!!
Kyle, I like the groove much better, but I think I made it too big too fast (I still like it better than the unaltered plastic bachi, though.) I outlined my entire pinky, and I don’t think that was necessary, I just a) needed a handle that was smaller, and 2) needed the groove to keep my pinky in place. Next time, I would start with a small groove and work my way up. (Hubby showed me where his Dremel is, so now I can just do it myself.)
P.S. Tell Kevin that my birthday is September 12 (Kidding of course! lol)
Lorraine: Great!! […] I would really like to give it a try.
Me too!
Great documentation Gary! And kudos for taking the project on too!
The shots in your update look great. How was the playability after extra sanding?
Epoxy resin is extremely rigid. Not very flexible. I was not willing to risk experimentation on my own sangen. I was going to do some extra sanding and grinding to thin down the blade for some additional future castings and modifications.
However, I have decided to postpone any further jiuta bachi casting because of the expense of the RTV mold material. The jiuta bachi is BIG and takes up a lot of volume in the mold box for the RTV to cover completely (about 32 oz of material which goes for around $40 a pop). Casting is relatively inexpensive, but making a mold of a large item can break the bank!
I do have enough RTV left over to create a “regular” bachi mold using a one-part mold compared to a two-part mold. I have to use the material within the next 45 days or it goes bad anyway.
I currently have a spare nagauta bachi that is 8 inches long, 4.5 inches wide on the blade, and weighs about 5 oz. Made out of wood. Not much smaller than my jiuta BUT because of its shape a one-part mold should do it.
I’m opening this process up to other members because I can proceed in a number of ways.
I can create a mold for that bachi, cast in epoxy, and send it to anyone who wants to either A) use it for experimental play, or B) to modify it for their own casting experiments.
Or, one member mentioned she wanted a bachi with a flower inside the handle. I can mold and then cast in acrylic and experiment with the flower intrusion, either using my aforementioned bachi or hers. I’d be willing to shell out the dough for the acrylic casting material simply because I’ve never cast in acrylic and wouldn’t mind experimenting with that.
Finally, if someone just wants me to mold and cast their own non-jiuta bachi, I can do that as well IF it is a standard, flat piece (not raised or slopes down from both sides like my plastic jiuta bachi).
But I can only do one of the options above.
So, give me some feedback either here or in a private message. Let me know how you want me to proceed.
you’re making me want to cast my wood nagauta bachi so i can play. I’ve only ever used Polyurethane to cast with, epoxy has a different feel, as does acrylic. Might have to send it to you…
I have a vague idea for shaping the handle, i’ll try and doodle it later on when i’m not running around like a headless chicken…