Trying to find more about my second hand shamisen

General
#1

Good day (or any of the phrases that matches your current time reading this)

I’m quite new to the shamisen. Been taking once a week shamisen class since september while I’m on exchange in Japan and after much frustation on not being able to practice at home I bought a second hand shamisen last weekend. The guy who sold it to me was also an amateur so he couldn’t tell me much about it. It’s similar to the style my teacher plays but because of communication problems it’s difficult to ask him so I’m hoping you guys can be of help.





(Never realized before how horrible I’m at photography)
I’m mostly curious about what kind of shamisen this is and what kind of wood is in the neck. I tried doing some research but I didn’t find anything conclusive. I would be grateful if someone more knowledgeable could help me with finding out what I have in my hands.

Good times

#2

Hullo fellow dude living in Japan,

Based on the picture, you have a jiuta or min’yo shamisen. The curve of the neck, relative thickness of the skin, and the presence of an azuma sawari readily suggest either.

Without the dimensions, I can’t tell you more than that - but you can figure it out from here!

Lift up the doukake, and there will probably be a label on it. Even though these are generally hand-crafted instruments and may have some regional and individual quirks, overall body sizes tend to be roughly the same.

There are likely two ways it will be written on the doukake. Either very easily:

"地歌 / 民謡” (jiuta, min’yo respectively)

or more technically:

“一分五厘大 / 五厘大” (Ichibugorindai, gorindai).

The ichibugorindai is a larger body with a stronger bass sound, while the gorindai is smaller and a little bit brighter. The former is more characteristic of jiuta, and the latter of min’yo.

It may be interesting to note that gorindai’s are the same size body used in kouta shamisen!

If your doukake is unlabled, the koma might be another clue. But it’s a little hard to see in the picture.

As for wood, that’s very hard for me to tell without picking it up or knowing more about it.

If it’s lighter, I’m inclined to think it’s karin with a heavy stain or more likely shitan. I doubt it’s kouki, but if it’s quite heavy it could be.

Best of luck and happy practicing~

#3

I promise I am now done tweaking ~

#4

Thank you for the reply. It’s regrettable but I don’t have anything to measure my shamisen at the moment and I’m not used enough to these kinds of woods to be able to discern if it’s heavy or not. I’ll just have to study the japanese vocabulary about shamisen so I can ask my teacher about it.

#5

Hi Alexander, welcome to Bachido! :slight_smile:

That looks like a nice shamisen! As Christopher says, I’m inclined to say it’s a jiuta shamisen (Minyo shamisen tend to have larger itomaki, right, Chris?), especially judging by the koma (which is jiuta style). It also seems most likely made from shitan (rosewood).

Anywho, looks like a very fine shamisen indeed! :slight_smile:

#6

Thank you for the reply. It’s regrettable but I don’t have anything to measure my shamisen at the moment and I’m not used enough to these kinds of woods to be able to discern if it’s heavy or not. I’ll just have to study the japanese vocabulary about shamisen so I can ask my teacher about it.

No need to measure it~ you most likely have a jiuta (or near enough to one).

If you ever get the impulse though, check the underside of the doukake to confirm.

The gear-nerd me is super curious about your bachi, koma, and strings. So if you want to tell us about them, I’d be much obliged.

Minyo shamisen tend to have larger itomaki

Good catch! The itomaki differences totally slipped my mind.

Especially considering my own shamisen has itomaki with exceptional heft, I feel a bit silly now. :V!

#7

Thanks for the replies

There’s nothing special under the doukake, there was a sticker there, most likely put by the owner rather than the maker. I also checked inside the dou and it seems that there was a sticker there but it has been ripped out.

The teacher made us buy wood bachi’s when we begun our lessons but I got a bekkou bachi, most likely made out of some kind of resin, with my shamisen.

The koma seems to be a plastic one, not sure if it’s the original or not.

I got extra strings with the shamisen because one was broken, hatsune ito, the type with the leaves with the brown, blue and green background.

I also got a full size case, cover for my shamisen, a music stand, some notes, a tuner and a beautiful purse-something for my bachi. Spent 300 bucks on this and I’m really happy with my purchase, especially when I finally went to see what it would cost me to buy something similar in a store.

#8

Pity there wasn’t any writing on the underside of the doukake! Most of my instruments have a label there (although not all, to be honest).

The sticker remnants you saw inside the dou probably had information on the last time it was serviced or where it was made. Pity it’s gone.

As for the bachi, I’m very interested in its shape an dimensions (especially compared your wood one).

Your koma could be a few different materials if it’s a Jiuta.

Some jiuta koma are made from plastic, horn, or bekkou and may have small weights of gold, silver, or lead. Regional variants exist though.

What gauge are the strings? It should be written on the backside of each paper pack.

Sounds like you found a nice one, no matter the details. Thanks for indulging my curiosity.

#9



Coffee can for reference. My room is in a mess right now so I couldn’t find my wood bachi for the picture but it’s shaft is shorter and the span of the edge is also a little bit shorter.

There are weights in the koma, 90 something percent certain it’s lead.

#10

さすが地唄だ！

That’s a Jiuta bachi, and if there’s weights it’s almost certainly a Jiuta Koma too

15/14/14 strings.

Neeeeeat!

#11

Hi Alexander. I agree with Kyle and Christopher regading itomaki and shitan. So a jiuta set, but an azuma sawari is not so often used in such a case ! And the bekkou (even faux-bekkou) bachi alone is worth the price you paid ! Congratulations !

#12

That makes me quite happy.

I wonder, what’s the standard sizes for juita strings? I was going to buy some supplies next time I go downtown but I want to get used to the standard before I start finding something that would suit me better.

#13

I wonder, what’s the standard sizes for juita strings? I was going to buy some supplies next time I go downtown but I want to get used to the standard before I start finding something that would suit me better.

Stick with the 15/14/14 for now, and just keep one extra set on stand-by until you have an idea of what you like. Strings are largely a matter of personal preference + what fits your itomaki.

With a chuuzao like that, you could feasibly use up to a 20 on the ichi-no ito… but you should ask your teacher! I just mirror whoever I’m learning from.

#14

Looking at the shape between the neck and the dou, I agree with Minyo. It is exactly like my second hand shamisen bought… in Kyoto.
When I told the seller I wanted to play Tsugaru style, he explained to me about the shape.

Any idea what style of music you are learning with your teacher? Is it Nagauta?

#15

“Looking at the shape between the neck and the dou, I agree with Minyo.”

This is confusing me a bit, wasn’t the consensus that it’s a juita shamisen?

I’m not sure what style I’m learning, the course is offered by my university and I decided to take it because it looked really interesting. We’re learning in this old japanese style house in the Gion district and the guy usually doesn’t teach, mostly just works as a performer. I think he’s a relatively a big name here in Kansai area in the shamisen circle. I had a real trouble understanding him in the first few classes so it’s embarrassing but I don’t know his name. I’ll figure it out in next class with some classic misdirection like “how do you write your name in kanji?”

#16

“Looking at the shape between the neck and the dou, I agree with Minyo.”

This is confusing me a bit, wasn’t the consensus that it’s a juita shamisen?

I’m not sure what style I’m learning, the course is offered by my university and I decided to take it because it looked really interesting. We’re learning in this old japanese style house in the Gion district and the guy usually doesn’t teach, mostly just works as a performer. I think he’s a relatively a big name here in Kansai area in the shamisen circle. I had a real trouble understanding him in the first few classes so it’s embarrassing but I don’t know his name. I’ll figure it out in next class with some classic misdirection like “how do you write your name in kanji?”

Hey again, Alexander,

I’m not sure why Jacinthe is saying min’yo, maybe she could explain a little more? Here’s some elaboration on my end.

These days, jiuta and min’yo necks look very similar.

Traditionally, the former lacks an azuma-sawari. Primarily there are two reasons: the azuma-sawari is rather modern and jiuta music has little need for it.

In brief, this has to do with the musical traditions surrounding jiuta and the more regular tuning found in it. By comparison, min’yo has to change to match the singer so more flexibility is generally required. This is what Muramatsu-san told me just the other week at his shop in Toyama, anyway.
That said, modern jiuta occasionally have them.

As Kyle mentioned, the itomaki on a jiuta tend to be slim as well. More in line with thin nagauta, rather than the flaring handful of tsugaru. Min’yo itomaki have a bit more heft, although not as much as tsugaru. When I get home today, I’ll try and post a picture to illustrate this.

The exact reasoning for it is beyond me, but I’m uncertain the genesis of shamisen music and the heaviness of strings have something to do with it. Someone better read than I probably has the answer.

To be honest, the difference in instrument between the two genres is slim.

Jiuta usually have bigger bodies, heftier bachi, and wider koma. But each of these change the sound only slightly. It’s only by combining all of them with careful playing that the difference arises.

I would be inclined to call your shamisen a jiuta because of the accessories and circumstances. Kyoto has a long history of Jiuta. (Kyoujamisen is a local variant, but that’s another can of worms)

#17

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, much appreciated

#18

Here’s a picture of my shamisen’s Tenjin. You can see the itomaki are quite large (although not so big as one might find on a tsugaru)

#19

I am really sorry for the confusion. It was me being confused here. I recalled the seller talking about minyo and it remained in my memory but it was wrong.

What I was trying to explain was the difference with the Hatomune shape. Nagauta often has a round shape and jiuta is like your shamisen.

Good luck with the Japanese learning.

#20

Jacinthe Ma, no worries, I ended up learning more about the differences than if you hadn’t accidentally mixed the words up so no harm done.

I appreciate the willingness to help a stranger to figure out what he has in his hands. It seems this is a really good forum with good people.

I’ll try my best with the japanese.

© 2020 Kyle Abbott