True, the koma would have to be switched out. I guess switching between the two in a song wouldn’t be as easy as I thought.
I guess for a performance, you could just bring two Shamisen. One regular Shamisen for the bachi and the other for bowing with a Kokyu koma positioned higher up and everything. ^^
I’m also thinking you’d want silk strings for bowing a shamisen.
Kyle: I’ll give Katoh-san you’re regards. I’m probably going to pay him a visit this week because it looks like he’s having a sale… That guy has quite a bit of my money.
Hmm…it’s an interesting thought. I know on the Violin the strings are metal. Of course you can’t use metal strings on a Shamisen, but I wonder if nylon or tetron would be better. I am worried the rosin from the bow might build up on silk strings over time. I wonder how the string material might affect the sound too. Another thing to experiment with!
Hi Guys.
This is my first post in this forum and I would like to add some extra info I got about a “bowed shamisen”
I’m very interested on composing non traditional japanese music with some japanese instrument and in my research I’ve got a very interesting book called “composing for japanese instruments” by Minoru Miki, the book is fully translated to english and is a very useful resource to traditional japanese instruments tunings, technics, constructions etc.
In the Kokyū part, the book talks about two other Kokyū that were invented by Japanese players, one is the Chū-Kokyū created by Michio Miyaki and that is tunned a 4th lower (I think the contemporary 4 stringed Kokyū comes from here) and also about a contemporary performer invention called the Dai-Kokyū developed by Keiji Azechi, this Kokyū has a bigger body than a regular one.
I was surprised to see that there’s actually a japanese “bass kokyū” that is called the Reikin. the information is quite limited in the book and the author only points that it was created by Hisao Tanabe (1883-1984) and that it’s tuning normally in san-sagari (as the kokyū) from G2 aprox. he mentions that Hon-chōshi tuning is also possible but not common among kokyū players.
I hope you people who’re in Japan (I dream about being there) can look for some additional info about this Reikin which seems to be interesting although very uncommon.
Here you have some videos
Wow, that was very interesting. I believe he said it was first made in the Taisho era (1900s), so it’s quite recent. It’s like what Gerry was talking about: early Innovation of traditional Japanese instruments.
Haha! His bow is awesome!
Julian…all I can say is WOW! I never heard of the Reikin! Now I REALLY want to play one! It’s like a blend of Shamisen, kokyu, Violin and Biwa. And I love the bow!! Of course it won’t replace my lovely Shamisen, but I would love to do both, wow I would love that!
But it looks like it’s an extinct instrument recently revived? I am not even sure how I could find one, or for that matter, afford to buy one even if I did find one. But woulden’t it be great to be part of reviving such a cool traditional instrument? I wonder how I could…
I would rather say that this instrument has a really big western influence… Is a sort of combination between a Japanned cello with a shamisen/Gottan.
The endpin of the instrument is fantastic (c’mon, a bamboo piece? isn’t that beautiful?) and the overall it’s ok… but most of the sawari sound of the shamisen is lost… I think is because of practical reasons (a nut seems to be installed on it).
Of course it’s an extinct instrument, it just appeared briefly in Japan and is no longer used largely (and has never been). The instrument seems to lack of any literature/school attached to it… even so it’s really appealing and surely playing it could ensure a contemporary revival, even so, more detailed info about makers/history is unknown for me.
The bow… well, is just this guy on the video with his weird idea… I love Kokyū’s bow aesthetics and I think somehow they can be adapted to have screw mechanisms on them… but well, is just my opinion.
It’s true it is missing that sawari sound, it really does sound like something between a Viola and a Cello too. I think it also possibly reflects a period in Japan where western influence was touching a lot of things. But it is still a very interesting instrument.
I wonder now… if it would be more “Japanese” to play a Reikin or to bow a Shamisen. hmmm
Either way, I think it won’t be likely that i’ll find a Reikin. Of course if the opportunity presented itself I would love to have one. But I think it’ll be worth the effort to work on bowing a Shamisen, to have that distinctive sound.
Those videos were really interesting, I’d like to meet that guy. Haha… The clash of eastern and western aesthetic is really interesting.
I’m not sure it would be very “Japanese” to do either, but you shouldn’t take that as a bad thing.
Oops I edited my last comment before I saw yours Eric! Well like I said, I guess unless i’m really lucky to come across a Reikin, i’ll probably have to stick with bowing my Shamisen. Which isn’t a bad thing at all, im still super psyched about the idea! I just got really exited about the Reikin because it seemed like someone else already figured out what I was trying to figure out. But what I understand now is a bowed Shamisen would probably have more of that “Japanese” sound then the Reikin, and in a practical sense is more available to me to work on.
Like Julian also mentioned, there is also the Chū-Kokyū created by Michio Miyaki that is tunned a 4th lower and the Dai-Kokyū developed by Keiji Azechi, which has a bigger body. So I think it isn’t too off the mark to bow a Shamisen, it might be simular to a Dai-Kokyū. Although i’m not sure how big a Dai-Kokyū is to compare.
It seems like this guy does everything! Maybe this is his recreation of a Dai-Kokyū?
I found this interesting as well - a wooden version, which sounds really interesting.
That guy’s a beast. So you meant "Japanese in terms of sound? I thought you meant in terms of execution.
I think I’m going to need to get a copy of that book on composing for Japanese instruments…
He sure is! 
I’m not sure I meant anything specific in terms of being “Japanese” I think I kind of meant in general. Sound, appearence, history, culture, etc. But then again, Japan has always been a “borrow and try to make it better” sort of culture. hehe
I think if the flute didn’t replace the Kokyu in popularity to pair with the Shamisen (hopefully I am quoting that correctly), there might be a variety of Kokyu just like there are Violins, Violas, Cellos and Bass. Or maybe not, but it looks like it was going that direction at different points in time.
I think the first video of his “Large Japanese Fiddle” looks a lot like a 4 stringed Shamisen.
Yes, the guy is playing a Dai-kokyū - 大胡弓 (Thank you kanji!), I love the sound of it, it keeps the sound of the kokyū, it’s not as piercing as his small brother and it keeps the aesthetics of a japanese instrument.
I see a big size difference between the Dai-kokyū and a Nagauta, I would recommend you to try to get a Dai-kokyū instead because not only the register is pretty close to a viola (or a violin… scordatura is always an option) but the size is appropriate in order to put the endpin of the instrument in between the thighs and your arm far away from the roof.
To see a size difference between both could be a nice idea in order to make a decision, the Dai-kokyū is a nice option and I think most of the Kokyū techinique/literature/repertoire could be studied on it. I strongly encourage you to call the guy on the video, he seems to be an enthusiastic of the japanese bow (http://www.nehito.com/)
Regarding the book, if someone is interested more on historical topics of the instruments this is not the book, the book focus on the register, the musical options and technic aspects of most of the Japanese traditional instruments, a strong musical education is recommended in order to take the most profit of it.
finally, this is a size comparison between a Dai-kokyū and a Kokyū (sorry about this large post but hey, I love Japanese instruments so much!)
I tried writing him a messege on his YouTube account with my very basic Japanese, and got a reply, but it didn’t quite answer my question of where you could obtain these instruments. I think the hint is that he is restoring them himself, and playing them, and that might be it. So unless he decides to start selling them, that might be a dead end for now. Mind you, I enquired about the Reikin at the time, so I should probably ask him about the Dai-Kokyu too.
What I am not sure about is if the Dai-Kokyu is an instrument he has recreated, or one that is as available as the regular Kokyu. I will need to Google that a bit more. I agree I like the sound of the Dai-Kokyu much, much better then the regular Kokyu.
If it turns out that the Dai-Kokyu is also a recreated instrument and obtaining one will be very difficult, then at least I can work on bowing a Shamisen. I think that would be somewhat close to playing a Dai-Kokyu. But should the Dai-Kokyu be available, I will have to save up for one. But just the same, I think bowing a Shamisen would be interesting too.
I find it so amazing how much this topic has grown! I really appreciate your insight on the topic Julian. I think Japanese traditional instruments are great, too. Down the road when I get comfortable with the Shamisen, I would love to work with the koto a bit too. I also have a little bamboo flute, but I have no idea if it is Japanese or not.
Sorry about reviving this old post.
Some extra info about Kokyuu Dealers in Japan
