I prefer Grant’s version with the Kanji to the one with just the two at the bottom. It seems more balanced this way, whereas the two of the bottom make one area of an otherwise minimalistic symbol very busy.
What about Karl’s idea of having the Dou as the border? That helped distinguish it from the whole “steering wheel” problem.
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I actually really like Grant’s version with the three kanji. The balance is good, and adding the “kai” makes sense to me.
However, I’m uncertain about having kanji as part of the mon itself. While a few real mon do have kanji, it’s kind of rare as most usually go for some kind of pictoral symbolism instead of straight up spelling things out with words. (Although I guess kanji are a kind of pictoral symbolism, but shut up.) I’d be up for kanji presented with the mon, like maybe below it or something, as part of a design to be put on t-shirts and whatnot, but as for having them as part of the mon itself, I dunno. It seems a little blunt to me whereas most mon are more subtle. I mean, we’re already spelling it out pretty clear, at least I think so.
As for Karl’s dou design, I dunno about the rectangular shape, but I’d be up for seeing that squarer version. I think it’d be a little subtler and more mon-like that way. Can you whip up a draft, Karl?
Also, just for comparison, I might make a version of mine with the strings different widths. Right now I feel like it’s good as is (again, cuz it doesn’t rub it in your face with obviousness), but who knows, maybe I’ll end up liking the other version better.
Man, it’s never a good idea to skip a day on the forum, especially with a topic like this. 
Karl: Creative idea with the dou as the outer “circle”! Interestingly, having the dou as the outer circle is something Pop suggested I do. However, though I’m rather ignorant about it, I don’t think a non-circular shape can be put on a hakama. Like Jamie said, perhaps try making it subtler and I’ll ask Masahiro if it’s possible for that shape to be embroidered in a hakama or whatever. 
Cana: Oooooh!! Your bf’s design would actually make an awesome shirt!! 
Linda: Well said! The lot of it! I’ll respond to a few points with quotes.
Well, I confess that my very first thought when the mon came up on the screen was “hmm, that reminds me of a shuriken”.
Haha! Yeah, Masahiro thought the same thing. 
Like Gwyn said, it also has a feeling of the mitu-tomoe, which I am a huge fan of. Coincidentally, that also kinda looks like a shuriken.
Simple and clean is generally a more memorable logo than busy and cluttered. You already have a good design on your hands, and messing it up, or “prettifying” it does not make it any better.
True true. Clean and simple is also the current hip thing, so it’s a win win. Personally, I am a fan of the simple form as well, but it’s good to consider all the options. (probably the reason I’d never be able to get a tattoo)
So, I inclined to say that it’s settled. Clean it is! Now to work out the little details
However, we are an international society. So there is no single country’s flower/tree/bird/emblem/whatever that would represent Bachido, and certainly not sakura.
Very well. I’ve just whipped up a design with some fauna which all cultures can appreciate! (Well, except for Mormon and Muslim, I suppose)
Man, Karl (with his car mon) and I have nothing better to do, do we?
Would it perhaps look less “stiff”/better if the black and white were reversed?
Sure, we can do that too. Masahiro told me that black background was more traditional, but either way is fine with me. Adding shading to the bachi would help a lot, methinks.
…. Especially since Bachido is basically just starting up, as it were, having multiple logos or multiple variations of a base logo does not sound like the best way to get brand recognition.
Yeah, I agree. As much as I’d like to have different designs, having one brand logo is the most beneficial in the business sense.
One thought I had was that when we add Nagauta and Jiuta sections to Bachido (it will happen… at some point! ), perhaps the other designs could be associated with each of them. Of course, that wouldn’t be good if it appeared to segregate the styles. :S
I have to agree with Jamie about the kanji. I feel if kanji is even added, it should be very subtle as to not exceptionally change the feel of the design itself. For someone who can read kanji (like myself), it’s just the same as this.
In which case I’d say, it’s great but shouldn’t be integrated into the mon. Alongside it is very tasteful. Just like the pepsi logo!
Masahiro said the large kanji reminds him of a religious group. I’m all for Bachido being a cult, but a religion? That’s kind of a PR nightmare right now.
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I agree with what Masahiro san said. Maybe the Japanese living in Japan has the same view. Large kanji reminds us of certain extreme religious or political group.
obviously my idea of just rotating the original mon is not catching on . . . as for me that would be the coolest version of the original simple and clean one . . . other than that and the cappuccino one I think Grant’s kanji one is also quite nice and rather all suggestions got something to it I think . . . while Karl’s dou border couldn’t possibly make more sense content wise I for some reason don’t like it totally as for its visual impression . . .
anyway the mon is a symbol for the even more valuable things it is a symbol for so I shall just sit back and relax on this one . . . somehow I think whatever comes out of this will be fine with me . . . unfortunately I am lacking any graphical design talent
Man, it’s never a good idea to skip a day on the forum, especially with a topic like this.
Karl: Creative idea with the dou as the outer “circle”! Interestingly, having the dou as the outer circle is something Pop suggested I do. However, though I’m rather ignorant about it, I don’t think a non-circular shape can be put on a hakama. Like Jamie said, perhaps try making it subtler and I’ll ask Masahiro if it’s possible for that shape to be embroidered in a hakama or whatever.
Cana: Oooooh!! Your bf’s design would actually make an awesome shirt!!
Linda: Well said! The lot of it!
Well, I confess that my very first thought when the mon came up on the screen was “hmm, that reminds me of a shuriken”.
Haha! Yeah, Masahiro thought the same thing.
Simple and clean is generally a more memorable logo than busy and cluttered. You already have a good design on your hands, and messing it up, or “prettifying” it does not make it any better.
True true. Clean and simple is also the current hip thing, so it’s a win win. Personally, I am a fan of the simple form as well, but it’s good to consider all the options.
So, I inclined to say that it’s settled. Clean it is!
However, we are an international society. So there is no single country’s flower/tree/bird/emblem/whatever that would represent Bachido, and certainly not sakura.
Very well. I’ve just whipped up a design with some fauna which all cultures can appreciate! (Well, except for Mormon and Muslim, I suppose)
Man, Karl (with his car mon) and I have nothing better to do, do we?
Noted!
Would it perhaps look less “stiff”/better if the black and white were reversed?
Sure, we can do that too. Masahiro told me that black background was more traditional, but either way is fine with me. Adding shading to the bachi would help a lot, methinks.
…. Especially since Bachido is basically just starting up, as it were, having multiple logos or multiple variations of a base logo does not sound like the best way to get brand recognition.
Yeah, I agree. As much as I’d like to have different designs, having one brand logo is the most beneficial in the business sense.
One thought I had was that when we add Nagauta and Jiuta sections to Bachido (it will happen… at some point!I have to agree with Jamie about the kanji. I feel if kanji is even added, it should be very subtle as to not exceptionally change the feel of the design itself. For someone who can read kanji (like myself), it’s just the same as this.
In which case I’d say, it’s great but shouldn’t be integrated into the mon. Alongside it is very tasteful. Just like the pepsi logo!
Masahiro said the large kanji reminds him of a religious group. I’m all for Bachido being a cult, but a religion? That’s kind of a PR nightmare right now.
<3333 awesomes hes very happy about that ^.^
i was thinking the same.
Think we could get it down as a Tshirt when the thread comes out?
kyle if we make juita and nagauta style history, what they look like… famous people who played the styles and how they all evolved into a tsugaru would be really cool, you have most of this info on the site already ^.^
Could we also do minyou please? and gidayu ?
maybe 1-3 major people that influences the style and how it evolved…?
I wouldnt mind helping with the research but i’d like you to check up and correct where i’m wrong etc… (or writing the paragraphs or whatevers needed of course you would need to go over my horrible writing and grammar though but i could leave a giant husk you could pull together if you are interested)
I would love to know more about the styles of shamisen, i mainly know the basic bits… but it would be nice to go to Bachido to study each style and learn how to pick out in a bunch of shamisen which is which and how each styles sound in each tuning/ different skins
This might just be adding more fuel to the flames, but have you guys ever checked out this site? http://www.asgy.co.jp/
It’s an archive of thousands of mon organized by their main elements, and I used it when figuring out what to do about my own personal mon. You can really see a ton of variety in the designs. First of all, not every mon has a circular border (which was news to me when I started this research), and second, they’re not all symmetrical. Some actually get quite complex, too. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to stitch some of these into kimono. As for our own mon, though, I gotta say I’m still drawn to simplicity and subtlety as opposed to complexity and directness.
In case you can’t read Japanese and don’t feel like clicking wildly all over the site, scroll down to the section where it’s got three columns listed as “植物~Plant,” “動物~Animal,” and “図柄~Pattern.” Each link is a theme element, like “wisteria” or “rabbit.” Click on one of those and you’ll come to a page with some variations on that element to be used as a base for a mon. Then you can click the greenish/greyish button below marked “家紋一覧表” to see examples of actual mon that utilize that element.
Thanks for the link Jamie, looks really cool! I actually tried out the more square-ish dou border but it didn’t match with the 3 bachi at all I’m afraid.
I want to add that it looked cool with the kanji separated into the three black areas, but I also agree that it looks a bit strange when you start dividing a composite word like that (when you know how to read it).
Very useful link, Jamie! An awesome way to get ideas, especially for the border.
What do you think about the one on the left? - http://www.asgy.co.jp/pattern/wa.html
What do you think about the one on the left? - http://www.asgy.co.jp/pattern/wa.html
Now you’re just trying to steal my mon outright! The one on the left is the “wisteria ring,” the outer portion of my mon! Stop taking my stuff!
By the by, went ahead and played around with me old design and also took in Linda’s ideas.
From the left: My original design, just with thicker lines all around; my original design with lines of different widths; Linda’s idea with lines of equal width; Linda’s idea with lines of different widths. Any thoughts?
my tuppence worth:
Simple and clean
maybe image reversed, but black and white is nice to begin with,
maybe another colour on shirts etc (red, blue etc but no mixing of colours)
Not keen on text within the mon but under it is looking good.
that’s really it, everyone else has said what i’ve thought from one perspective or another XD.
(just playing about, not relevant entirely…)
Jamie,
I prefer when the strings are the same size, but I still think it takes too much focus from the bachis.
The second one you did looked really nice, and here the different thick strings actually looked really good. Can you try out to have the strings positioned in 1/3 or 2/3 of the height instead of 1/2? To me the strings remind me a little bit of a sunset, and the strings are waves on the ocean. In photography and design in general thirds are pretty much used so I thought that it could look even cooler with that.
Hey Karl, here’s the 1/3 version.
I tried it at 2/3 too, but 1/3 looks better.
I don’t know anything about photography or design…
I think that looks really cool. It might look slightly better if you draw a very thin black line as a border to the bachi. It might not as well
Does anyone dig that stuff?
Kyle-san!!! Look carefully at the store,a Japanese shamisen player that doesnt speaks english will be a bit confused,like my friend did! XD In the tsugaru shamisen level 4, and tsugaru shamisen level 4 set, i can see that the “level” (段) is a bit wrong,look: カリン津軽三味線－三段, and 津軽三味線セット－三段,shouldn’t it be :
-カリン津軽三味線－四段 and
-津軽三味線セット－四段
Kyle, I’m not doing this to show your mistakes, I’m just doing this for the community,so don’t be angry with me =3
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we have to remember that this is a mon and not just a logo. In it’s essence we are recreating something that is inherently Japanese. […] The easy solution … would be throwing in the Kanji.
Good point about mon vs. logo. Since it is a mon we’re designing, that would actually be a reason for leaving the kanji out, since about 99% of mon don’t use kanji (and Jamie has already said everything else I would have said - thanks Jamie! {g}) However, the kanji could go in for a Bachido logo.
Very well. I’ve just whipped up a design with some fauna which all cultures can appreciate!
Bachido latte! Kyle, better trademark it before one of the big chains sees this one. (And as it happens, I like this one better than your original! {lol})
By the by, went ahead and played around with me old design and also took in Linda’s ideas. From the left: My original design, just with thicker lines all around; my original design with lines of different widths; Linda’s idea with lines of equal width; Linda’s idea with lines of different widths. Any thoughts?
Jamie, I want you on my graphics team! Of those four, I like your original (L) better than the triple-bachi with different line thicknesses, because adding that extra design feature starts to make things a bit too fussy. And I confess that, now that you’ve so kindly designed it for us, I do like the single bachi mon. It somehow feels more Japanese/traditional(?) to me, altho’ as I said previously, we’re not necessarily aiming for that… As for the two single bachi options, again, I prefer the equal-line thickness (L) one, 'cause changing the line thicknesses somehow messes up the balance a bit…
As for the steering wheel/nuclear waste/fan blade thing, unfortunately, I think that’s one of those situations where, once you come to see it that way, that view kind of sticks in the mind permanently… 
Anyhoo, I’m enjoying everyone’s designs, ideas and comments in this thread. We’ve certainly got a wealth of non-shamisen talent in this pool!!!
Thanks Linda! And okay, oooooone more if you like the same line thickness…
Jamie and Karl:
I’ve got to say, I am a HUGE fan of both! Truly, I think the horizontal three lines looks really great. However, the single bachi looks lonely. :-S
Linda: Ain’t there though! Whodda thought there’d be so many folks here who know their way around photoshop!
Shinji: How dare you spot my mistakes!
Just kidding! Many thanks! I have trouble spotting everything, so I really appreciate it when you (and many others) point them out to me.
I’ll make note of that. If all goes well, the shop will be updated by next week… or the week after.
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